The Minnesota dentist that made international headlines earlier this year for killing Cecil, a black-maned lion in Zimbabwe, is back in the spotlight after being accused of deer herding on his property.

The Minnesota Department of Natural Resources (DNR) says it is currently investigating allegations of illegal deer herding on land near Barnesville owned by Walter Palmer, who was only recently cleared of poaching charges by the Zimbabwe government. Witnesses said they saw pickup trucks being used to keep deer inside of the property. It is illegal in Minnesota and many other states to use a motor vehicle to chase wild animals.

Leah Thompson, who has been hunting on the land next to Palmer’s for the last 10 years, says she saw the trucks as recently as last week.

“He wasn’t driving, when you’re driving in a gravel road you’re moving, you’re going to where you need to go, he just slowed way up and the next thing I know the deer turned around and back into his field,” she told KFYR-TV.

Thompson claimed that when she made the call to the DNR, officials told her that several others have already made a complaint against Palmer. Conservation officers previously said that there were some hunting disputes regarding Palmer’s property, and the dentist has a history of getting in trouble with wildlife agencies. In 2008, he pleaded guilty to illegally harvesting a bear in Wisconsin and several years earlier he was also charged for fishing without a license. Illegally herding deer with a motor vehicle carries a $300 fine and is considered a misdemeanor in Minnesota.

“We will talk to everybody involved and decide whether or not a violation has occurred,” Greg Salo, operations manager for the DNR, told the Star Tribune.  “It’s too early to speculate on the circumstances.”

A representative for Palmer responded that the allegations were baseless.

“The source cited by the media has a history of personal animosity toward Dr. Palmer,” read a statement. “This is just another example of people trying to attack an innocent man.”

The statement refers to the numerous death threats, calls, and hate mail directed to Palmer in the aftermath of the Cecil incident. The Zimbabwe government originally accused Palmer of poaching Cecil the lion in an illegal hunt over the summer, arresting his guide and the property owner of the land where the lion was killed. News of the Cecil’s death erupted in public outrage and forced Palmer to close down his dental office and withdraw from the public eye. Although Zimbabwe officials later concluded that Palmer had broken no laws, the damage to his reputation was already done.

Salo said the DNR will be contacting Palmer as part of the investigation. You can watch an interview with witnesses who allegedly saw the illegal herding below.

Images from Twitter and Larry Smith on the Flickr Creative Commons

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  • tom

    Sounds like more BS to me. “Herd deer”? “Chase deer”? Huh? By driving up and down a road? You will find you have no success if you try it. Reading between the lines on this, it just sounds ridiculous. I suspect that there are just a few hard core folks who are still angry about the foolish Cecil uproar who would like to make life difficult for this guy. The clueless media jackasses just make things worse, since they never know what they are talking about.

  • Philip

    BS? Did you even read the article? You read the part about him poaching in Wisconsin, then fishing illegally, and being a shithead in general? It’s pretty simple, people that don’t violate don’t have these types of issues…people that do and often apparently, end up having articles like this written about them. Sounds like Walter is a wealthy guy that thinks he can do whatever he wants. In terms of the “clueless media jackasses”, it sounds like you might be the one being clueless by defending someone whom obviously has a history of violating various states laws. I am all for defending hunting and hunters as I am one, but violators are trash and according to Walter’s past he a violator. Heck I bet he is the type of dude that would just straight up poach if he had hunting rights revoked for a few years…

  • David Butts

    Just wondering why this story needs to be out there in the media. Sounds to me like a dispute with neighbors, who got the fish and game involved. honestly unless there is real evidence of a serious crime being committed let go with the witch hunt against Palmer.

    • PreyTell

      Spoken like another ‘trophy hunter’ (= the most ignorant of ALL hunters because in pursuing “trophies” to brag about – they kill the best of all the breeds they hunt – thereby removing the best of them from their genetic breeding pool.

      One day puerile self-aggrandizing little men and their bloodthirsty female counterparts will be bragging about ‘bagging a trophy-dwarf this and that animal!” because that’s what be left. Morons all.

      The African hunt was NOT ‘legal’ – they purposely set about luring lions from their sanctuary KNOWING that was the only way they could kill them. Unfortunately Cecil showed up following the bait – was shot with a bow and arrow – and lived 40 hours before this piece of sh** tracked him down and finished killing him. Some ‘mighty hunter’!

    • PreyTell

      This site does not allow disagreeing responses!!

      • David Butts

        Look, First of all you need to address your argument to all the fish and game agencies in the U.S. Many if not all of them promote trophy hunting. This is what drives the sale of hunting licences which money in turn pays their salaries, and ultimately protects wildlife. Many wildlife sanctuaries in the U.S. exist because of hunting. Yellowstone National Park was started by an avid Trophy hunter. You can continue to spout off against Trophy Hunting, but you do it out of ignorance. True some hunters do brag about their hunting abilities, and animals they have collected. There are distasteful discords in all walks of life.There is recent news of policemen that are out of control. many minorities have said that, it is pervasive throughout all of law enforcement. Perhaps you believe that as well. personally I only believe that there are a few bad cops, but that most are good honest people. Many of the animals collected and displayed in the Smithsonian Institute museums, were collected by trophy hunters. I could go on and on, but I doubt you care. You only want to believe that all hunters are evil. Most hunters enjoy a tradition handed down from generations, and are really good honest folks.

      • PreyTell

        “First of all” – you did NOT address my “spout off” criticism – which is FAR from “ignorance”!!!

        Fact – trophy hunters are not interested in the runts-of-the-litter ARE THEY Mr. Butts!!! I repeat my criticism – perhaps then you will address THAT instead of going off on a tangent of criticism about my statements.

        When trophy hunters seek out only the best specimen of WHATEVER they are hunting – when they kill it (FOR NO DEFENSIBLE REASON OTHER THAN TO HANG IT ON A DEN WALL AND BRAG ABOUT IT [and it’s not “some” as you might hope for – it’s ALL of them – otherwise WHY HAVE IT STUFFED AND MOUNTED!) – so – back to the real issue of my coments – every ‘trophy hunter’ out there removes that best-of-the-species they have found at that moment to ‘the kill’ from the reproductive gene pool which means NO MORE TOP TROPHY OFFSPRING !!!

        You getting this yet??

        So – it does NOT matter how much they support or found a Yellowstone Park or any other wildlife sanctuary (which purpose is what? other than to provide for future hunts! – trophy hunters are not out there to feed their family FIRST – otherwise they would just be killing what ever came by of what they were hunting, field process it, and take it home for dinner!!!)

        You are talking to a hunter sir – and at 75 yrs, I’ve probably fired more times at dinner than you are old given your picture. I just happen to have TOTAL disrespect for any hunter (especially those participating in “canned hunts”) that are really out there just for the thrill of killing something!

        You comments about law enforcement? – there are a few bad ones, but most put their lives on the line ever day to “Protect and to Serve” so that we can at least agree upon.

        And as far as exhibits in museums like the Smithsonian – they are collected from a great many sources – some no doubt from “trophy” hunters – but many because they died at a zoo or preserve.

        Finally – as you end your response – you give additional evidence that you (a) apparently never got the central point of my comments [see above] and (b) did not attempt a single word in rebuttal of that central point regarding the wast every last “trophy hunter” perpetrates on our animal kingdom.

        Care to try again?

      • David Butts

        Well Mr. Prey Tell, Nice rant. However you failed to recognize my initial point that all your evil doers, are encouraged by State Fish and Game agencies. Why not start a protest campaign. You know like “Hands up Dont Shoot” or “Black Lives Matter”. That my friend is a fact. Since I am involved in the hunting industry, I recognize that there are yes, I concede the point that there are some distasteful aspects of Trophy Hunting. But Mr. Prey Tell I can have an honest discussion, How much money and resources are generated by anti hunting groups that support wildlife? How much money have you contributed to Hwange Park in Zimbabwe to support lion conservation? The reality is, that without trophy hunting, wildlife altogether will disappear. How is that you ask? It is simple, It takes money. There are now Hundreds of Game farms in South Africa. Cattle, and sheep have been replaced by wild game. Why? Because wildlife has more value for the farmers than domestic animals. This is because of trophy hunting. Some of these farms are 100 thousand acres or more. Not the canned hunting that we both despise. Take Trophy hunting away, and the wild game that competes with domestic animals will be replaced by cattle, and goats and sheep. Its just that simple. I live by the largest Migratory Bird Refuge in the country. How is it paid for? Through the Federal duck stamp program paid for in part by Trophy Hunters. The hunting sanctuaries paid for by hunters, are to preserve wildlife, not to kill wildlife. Look you say you are a hunter, Or former hunter. How can you not get this? People brag about lots of things. Lets not take the actions of a few cloud the big picture of what is really the ultimate gain for wildlife. Wildlife thrives under this model of trophy hunting. That my good friend is backed by scientific data. Do some research and look at wildlife numbers across America and Africa.

      • PreyTell

        Have been attempting to respond to you – but DISQUS is blocking the URLs I have listed for you to consider (legitimate) documentation that runs counter to your arguments (and it also seems from the little note above my entries that OutDoorHub is not letting my response appear until their “Moderator” has approved it (and there is nothing discourteous in there in any thing I have said)

        So between these two – I may never be “allowed” to offer you alternative “facts” (your (word 🙂 in response to all the above.

      • PreyTell

        (just in case the other site’s “Moderator” decides not to “approve” this – here it is – with respect)

        Well David Butts – with all due respect – while I’m sure you are convinced of your arguments’ veracity, unfortunately I have to say they share (a) the characteristics of classic smoke & mirrors arguments (b) you still have not mounted a single defensible counter referencing my central point!!)

        Your: “I concede the point that there are some distasteful aspects of Trophy Hunting” is understating the problem a bit !!

        ALL trophy hunters because of their goal not to bag just any old representative of whatever they are hunting but to “bag a trophy animal” which unequivocally REMOVES that very animal’s genetics which made it particularly desirable to the hunter to kill it from being passed on in reproduction! Ignorance on parade !!

        Now – let’s have a look at your other arguments.

        “….Many (fish and game agencies) if not all of them promote trophy hunting. This is what drives the sale of hunting licenses which money in turn pays their salaries, and ultimately protects wildlife.”

        This is so full of erroneous justification I wonder if you don’t know better and are just hoping I would roll over and buy that oft-trotted-out red herring argument.

        (1) The “protection” of wildlife – is served just fine in conservation areas that do not allow hunting without having to issue killing permits to accomplish it.

        You brought up Yellowstone – so tell me Mr. Butts – since hunting is not allowed within the boundaries of Yellowstone – all those poor park rangers and other employees?? they must all be working without compensation since no one is paying to kill Yellowstone animals – right? – according to your re-quoted argument? Right?

        (2) As it happens – salaries of those working in no-kill ‘parks’, ‘preserves’, ‘sanctuaries’, etc are met without selling licenses to kill the animals, aquatic, and fowl species living there – so that attempt at justification selling license-to-kill permits to protect wildlife and human salaries is shown to be the smokescreen it is

        Now – about your challenge regarding Hwange Park in Zimbabwe.

        For the record – even though we are retired and have limited means – my wife and I donate to over 30 wildlife sanctuaries and rescue organizations, including ten domestic animal no-kill shelters and rescue organizations around the nation, and also to “Wounded Warriors” and the USO to the extent of our ability to do so. How many do you contribute to since you raised the question?

        We have two fundamental criteria regarding any charity or organization to which we donate:

        (1) They have to pass-muster as being a well run sanctuary or charity and we use several vetting sources to satisfy us that they do what they say they do in behalf of their population (whether wildlife or human) plus administrative salaries are not exorbitant in relation to published annual donations/economic reports

        Our #2 stipulation directly addresses your praise of the benefits of “Game Farms”!!

        You say: “There are now Hundreds of Game farms in South Africa. Cattle, and sheep have been replaced by wild game. Why? Because wildlife has more value for the farmers than domestic animals. This is because of trophy hunting. Some of these farms are 100 thousand acres or more.

        Rather than take this mistaken approach to task – let me offer an article for you to read (remove all the obligatory replacements of “.com” with “(DOT)” because otherwise DISQUS won’t publish this response).

        https://www.thedodo(DOT)com/community/Arian_Wallach/dead-or-alive-when-wildlife-has-a-price-tag-1074013435(DOT)html

        You add: “…Not the canned hunting that we both despise.”

        Good – we at least can agree upon that – but – your argument in behalf of ‘farmers’ ceasing the raising of domestic animals in favor of raising CAPTIVE wildlife to ultimately be killed for ‘trophies’ – (a) more of these “farms” are operated by corporations or already wealthy individuals who were NEVER farmers to begin with than by small ‘farmers’ and (b) they AREN’T RAISING a wide variety of wild animals (other predators) = mostly just LIONS and KILLING unwanted predators like cheetahs, scavenger animals, even leopards because a lion’s head is more highly prized by trophy hunters !!)

        As the article brings out – such “farms” are breaking up the natural grazing, hunting, and reproductive areas by large swaths of fenced-off land which GREATLY damages everything from the health to the reproduction of the natural wildlife populations !!!
        So back to our “vetting” criteria:

        (2) Under NO circumstances can the ‘park’ or ‘refuge’ or ‘conservation area’ – be a FRONT for “Caged Hunts” were lions and other big cats are gentled from birth (removed early from their birth mothers, bottle fed by humans, walked by ‘tourists’ or ‘volunteers’ beguiled by the owners of such “rescue” operations into walking, feeding these “orphans” = all to make the lions easy prey by removing their natural fear of humans so puerile little men or their wanton female counterparts) can pay a lot of money to go and kill one in fenced area so they can mount it and brag to their friends about their hunting prowess!!!

        You have already stated you “hate” caged hunting so the preceding was just to let you know I not only agree with you but have actually researched it thoroughly. Surprising to many is that the in-the-wild population of may species like lions and giraffes has been in steady decline for some time now. The current population figures include the cage-breed wildlife which paints an inaccurate picture of the state of African wildlife – which is hardly being ‘protected by hunters’ spending.

        Since we’re on Africa – let’s take a look at your comment: “Wildlife thrives under this model of trophy hunting. That my good friend is backed by scientific data. Do some research and look at wildlife numbers across America and Africa.

        Let’s see if the “scientific data” you think supports your argumentation actually supports it.

        Premise (restated) – trophy hunting (separated out from hunting specific to America to supplement one’s food due to unemployment, other financial hardship, or living “so far out there” traditional grocery stores, etc are not readily available) – spending for hunting, permits, lodging, etc is what makes it possible for “Wildlife thrives under this model of trophy hunting”

        I will say to you, friend, that you are mistaken and here is why.

        Photographic Safaris are FAR more financially supportive of local economies than Trophy Hunting Safaris!

        Does that surprise you? Do you not believe it? Stay tuned….

        Compare the two: – Trophy safari hunters are for the most part only allowed to hunt an average of a sixmonths “season”

        –Conversely: Photographic safaris are a twelve month “season”

        -A Trophy safari hunter kills his/her ‘trophy’ only once – thus removing it forever from the land – never again to be hunted or photographed

        –Conversely: Hundreds of Photographic safaris photographers photograph the SAME animal over and over, year after year and it’s still there – ALIVE – to be photographed and admired year for as long as it lives!! (and as was reported about the Zimbabwe Lion “Cecil” – photographic tours were booked year after year by tourists who had heard about him and wanted to photograph him – and cancellations to the preserve followed news of his killing by Dr. Palmer!)

        -On average, revenue from Trophy safari hunters goes to officials, licenses, etc., and only a small percentage (estimated 3%) reaches local economies

        –Conversely: Africa Geographic drew up (a hypothetical based upon available industry reports) comparison between two average sized concessions in the Okavango Delta, one selling hunting safaris and the other selling photographic safaris. This showed that Photographic safaris generate more than three times the total revenue compared to Trophy safaris and generate more than 12 times as much in staff salaries compared with hunting safaris!!

        So – concluding here so as this doesn’t become of mind-numbing length (and this much has been attempted because you do actually seem to be legitimately convinced of the arguments you put forth and also seem to be a “responsible” individual and hunter and I felt you needed to have some equally legitimate ‘facts and figures’ to counter your position(s) for you to consider).

        Finally – to answer: (1) “Look you say you are a hunter, Or former hunter. How can you not get this?” – no offense intended – but (a) I never hunted to kill something so I could brag about it or hang its head on my den wall and (b) I was never so insecure – or shallow – as a man that I needed to have my ego boosted regaling others about the “thrill of the hunt” or having my picture taken with a dead carcass – all carefully staged to receive the congratulations of envious locker-room friends for killing something.

        If/when I hunted it was for food and the size of a head/rack/whatever was totally unimportant. I took only what was needed and only when it was needed – and I did so responsibly. What I did NOT do – was to wait for a ‘trophy’ animal to show up as did Dr.Walter Palmer when he baited just outside the border of Hwange Park in Zimbabwe to lure out of their sanctuary a “trophy” lion – even allowing a female lioness to feast on the bait-carcass until Cecil came along who was very used to humans being around – blinded him with lights – shot him with an arrow (almost always a slower more painful death) tracked him for the 40 hours he struggled along with that arrow in his side – and finally killed him {{then tried to hide the evidence of the GPS tracking collar they removed when they cut off his head}})

        (2) You say: “Do some research and look at wildlife numbers across America and Africa” I include a few URLs (all Africa because that’s all I have time to collect tonight) for you to do the same (and I have already long ago looked at the ‘other side’s arguments’ (pro-hunting/pro-trophy hunting articles and defenses. NONE of them address the real issue going back to my original premise – all
        trophy hunters are the WORST ‘conservationists’ – because they take the
        best of the best of the species for their ‘trophy’ and thereby forever
        remove that ‘trophy’s superior genetics from their species reproduction
        pool !!! 🙂

        (Reminder: replace the “(DOT com (whatever it precedes)” with the real thing “(.com):

        http://www(DOT)tourismupdate(dot)co(DOT)za/Home/Detail?articleId=104082&publishingChannelId=3

        http://www(DOT)ifaw(dot)org/sites/default/files/Ecolarge-2013-200m-question(DOT)pdf

        http://www(dot)wag(DOT)co(DOT)za/cannedhunting/articles/The%20Myth%20Of%20Trophy%20Hunting%20As%20Conservation(DOT)htm

      • PreyTell

        How very interesting – that the response accompanied with verifiable documentation addressing your arguments posted last night – is not appearing this morning. How do you explain that?

      • David Butts

        Mr. Prey Tell, It seems that you like to argue your points, and you seem to have a lot of time on your hands, but you are not honest in your arguments, I actually have been to Africa 7 times. I have first hand experience with wildlife authorities, in Zimbabwe and Botswana, and South Africa. You sir have no first hand experience. I have been to Kruger National Park, Victoria falls Park, Chobe National Park, Addo National Park, to mention just a few. All of the Managers of these Parks disagree with you and support Trophy Hunting as a way to cull out excess animals. If hunting is so unimportant, Why was it just reported that 1,000.00 Buffalo from Yellowstone will be killed? I teach in Africa, and I know first hand how much money flows into that country because of hunting. Photo Safaris pay a small fraction of the money Trophy hunting pays. Why did the Zimbabwe officials so quickly come out and clear Mr. Palmer when they at first were so quick to condemn him? I’ll tell you why, they shot themselves in the foot, and realized that they were chasing off the trophy hunting community. Save your rebuttal, I’m done trying to use an honest discussion to talk to someone who at all costs will use misinformation as truth. You remind me of the Hands up dont shoot people who will use their agenda to the bitter end even though it was based on a lie to begin with. To say that Hunting has no merit at all as you maintain, is simply a lie.

      • Fente

        Mr. Butts – seems PreyTell’s entries in response to you are not being posted so he asked me to intercede and see if you are able to read this. He has attempted to respond four times in answer to the entry that began “”Well Mr. Prey Tell”, but none have posted.

        Very curious don’t you think, like maybe the pro-hunting site you were exchanging (initially) on has him blocked (and not because he has been rude, maybe they just don’t like his countering documentation)?

        As to your comment directed to him “you seem to have a lot of time on your hands” – he is deep into retirement and is up in years a bit.

        So if this “sticks” he will put his response to the entry beginning with “Well Mr. Prey Tell, Nice rant” on a flash drive and I’ll see if I can enter it in his behalf so you will be able to read it.

      • David Butts

        Look its been interesting to have this lively discussion, but I have a real job, and am no longer able to dedicate continued time on this back and forth with no end in sight. The individual known only as Prey Tell, obviously would like to shut down hunting altogether, and will not see the benefit it has brought to not only wildlife, but real people in desperate circumstances in Africa. I work with many of these people. They rely on the Trophy hunting industry for the services they provide. The Zimbabwe ministers of wildlife realized the huge mistake they made by so quickly jumping on the bandwagon against Mr. Palmer, who had no intention of poaching anything. They exonerated Palmer, and in addition the biologist who was tracking Cecile came out publicly and stated that hunting was in fact a necessary tool in game management. This story started with Mr. Palmer, and I think its appropriate to conclude it back on topic. Fact 1. Mr Palmer was cleared. fact 2. He has not been charged with harassing white tailed deer. Fact 3. The Zimbabwe government promotes Trophy Hunting in their country. I have met their agents personally at S.C.I. conventions. The photo Safaris do not bring in the hundreds of thousands of dollars that you profess in your argument, otherwise why would Zimbabwe, change their attitude about Palmer 180 degrees? They were at first screaming for his extradition. Ask yourself How is wildlife doing in countries like Somalia? how about Angola? what about Libya? There is no wildlife to speak of, The reason is that the animals have all been poached out by the native war lords. Without value to Trophy Hunters, the animals would expect the same fate under the dictator Robert Mugabe in Zimbabwe. Like it or not Mr. Prey Tell that is the truth. sometimes the truth doesn’t jive with ones personal agenda, but you have to be rational enough to see through your own wall you have put up.

      • Fente

        Apparently my attempt to enter a post is also not being put up for whatever reason (because what I wrote to you regarding PreyTell’s difficulties with the same thing is not showing). If though you are seeing them and they just aren’t posting (strange if so) then acknowledge MY communication and I will tell him.

        I’m not going to get into this discussion, but I can tell you that a number of your assumptions regarding “PreyTell” are quite in error. He has no desire nor goal of “shut down hunting altogether” but his premise I agree with regarding trophy hunters and trophy hunting.

        Finally, I read the white paper by Africa Geographic regarding the superior income derived from Photographic Safaris. It is you, sir, who are wrong. They DO bring in much more revenue than hunters and trophy hunters.

        Please acknowledge this post if you see it and I’ll let PreyTell know his will also be seen.

      • Fente

        I see you are own and are a TAXIDERMIST – so why should anyone expect anything other than a defense of hunting and ESPECIALLY trophy hunting!! Mounting head & hides is what pays the rent right Dave?

        No wonder you eschew the contradicting information put by my friend PreyTell!

      • David Butts

        I’m surprised that it took you so long to simply Google my name. I dont hide behind tread names. Listen of course I have a dog in the fight. You quote National Geographic as a legitimate non bias source for your anti hunting discussion, “That you dont want to get involved in”. Its common knowledge that National Geographic is against hunting. So maybe try again? Like I said before, you and your friend need to direct your hatred for trophy hunting towards the government fish and game agencies who promote and support this legal activity. Until it becomes unlawful to possess animal parts, trophy hunting is here to stay. So maybe start the anti hunting protests. I’ll be watching for you. Good luck with that.

      • Fente

        I didn’t “Google” you Mr. Butts, you provided that information yourself (Facebook).

        As to the rest of your comments, as I said previously when I was attempting to help him while he was having issues with his entries posting, I have no intention of engaging in the discussion between you and my friend who is more than capable (as evidenced) of addressing your counter-arguments to him without any assistance from me.

      • PreyTell
      • PreyTell

        David Butts – you state: “To say that Hunting has no merit at all as you maintain, is simply a lie”

        The “lie”, David Butts, begins with your re-quoted statement above – because I’ve said no such thing !!!!!!!!

        What I have said (in so many words if not exactly) is that trophy hunting – has no merit !!! I have NOT spoken out against responsible hunting by responsible hunters who take only what they need for food – anything beyond which is just exercising a lust for killing!

        But before I set about demonstrating who here is misrepresenting the facts by dismantling your arguments piece-by-piece so that all may see them for what they are….

        My new avatar is the Cecil that was who lived for thirteen years unmolested in Hwange National Park in Matabeleland North, Zimbabwe – seen here with two of his cubs. His killing by a man who paid in excess of $50,000 to do it – is a testimonial to the indulgence by governments whether nations or states of allowing to be exercised worldwide “trophy hunters” insatiable blood-lust-need to kill something – just to kill it – massaging their egos behind the faux front of “conservationism”!

        You said: “Why did the Zimbabwe officials so quickly come out and clear Mr. Palmer when they at first were so quick to condemn him? I’ll tell you why, they shot themselves in the foot, and realized that they were chasing off the trophy hunting community.

        Thank you – for so eloquently proving my point!!

        Dr. Walter Palmer was not “cleared” because he was not (a) hunting on land that had no lion hunting permit (he was)! He was not “cleared” because (b) he didn’t know exactly what his guides were doing to stay just within the law by laying in wait for a “trophy MALE” lion to wander at night into their spotlight just a “half a kilometre” (Daily Mail(DOT)com, source follows) from the railroad tracks marking the sanctuary boundary…in fact NEITHER was Dr. Walter Palmer “cleared” because (b) his hunting license for which he paid $54,000 was not a fake (it was, Source: Brookings Institute, July 30, 2015, issued 2:56 P.M.) – no – he was “cleared” because of greed on the part of Zimbabwe officials and nothing else!!

        Bravo Mr. Butts – from your own mouth – Dr. Palmer was not charged because Zimbabwe officials were afraid“…they were chasing off the trophy hunting community!!

        Amazing that you don’t “get it” even after your own choice of words unambiguously stated – that Dr. Walter Palmer was not charged because of greed-based fear on the part of Zimbabwe officials that by doing the right thing they would be endangering their REVENUE!! (which begs the question – must be a lot of “Dr. Palmers” are doing questionable things hunting Zimbabwe wildlife but their money keeps Zimbabwe officials looking the other way and excusing ILLEGAL activity – and yes – Palmer’s hunt was illegal!)

        Just to tidy up here a bit before proceeding – how much of Cecil did Dr. Walter Palmer eat?

        How much of Cecil provided food for the impoverished villages and their residents pro-trophy hunters like to tout as the beneficiaries of their killing were fed by Dr. Walter Palmer?

        You know the answer!!

        …and what did the mighty hunter, Dr. Walter Palmer, do after he had blinded Cecil at night with a powerful spotlight, lured by the smell of an already dead animal they had tied to their vehicle and shot him with an arrow (“According to the Zimbabwe Conservation Task Force (ZCTF), the hunt began on July 6. ‘They went hunting at night with a spotlight and they spotted Cecil,’ said the ZCTF’s Johnny Rodrigues. ‘They tied a dead animal to their vehicle to lure Cecil out of the park and they scented an area about half a kilometre from the park.” (Daily Mail(DOT)com, July 28, 2015 @ 08:26 EST)

        The result? A “kill” that took Palmer and his guides 40 hours to track down the mortally wounded Cecil who had staggered around in pain with an arrow sticking out of his side and finally kill him – with a gun shot!! So much for Palmer’s prowess with a bow and arrow!!

        What happened next? (after Palmer and his guides tried to hide the evidence of what they had done) then – Dr. Walter Palmer – no doubt with all the humility he could muster – showed pictures of the dead Cecil to a barmaid – to A BARMAID – and bragged to her (according to her statement) “I probably just set a record here!”

        Your defense of Dr. Walter Palmer is almost as pathetic as he is Mr. Butts – and your “facts” (once again) are NOT in concert with the police report that Palmer and his guides used a dead animal tied to their vehicle to bait a lion away from the sanctuary!!

        Much more to come in taking your comments on one-by-one as soon as time permits.

        http://www.brookings(DOT)edu/blogs/africa-in-focus/posts/2015/07/30-cecil-the-lion-conservation-hunting-felbab-brown

      • David Butts

        If photo Safaris are paying the bills as you say and your source National Geografic, then Zimbabwe officials would have no need to clear Mr. Palmer, Right? In fact it could be used as a propaganda tool to promote photo Safaris. After all what he did was illegal Right? Pleeeeese, Now you say you have picked apart my argument, but in so doing proved my point, it takes money to manage wildlife. Tell me what percent of hunters hunt just for food these days? Are they hunting for just the weakest animals of the lot, or are they hunting for a nice healthy animal to feed their family? Are fishermen going fishing to catch the smallest fish, or do they have a blood lust to catch the biggest fish? The fact is, Hunting is trophy hunting. Hunting is a tradition spanning thousands of years. people who hunt do not have a blood lust to simply kill things. Why have you never addressed my argument that trophy hunting is promoted my state fish and game agencies? have you called and spoken to the director of your own state? So you want to make a difference? I invite you to stop wasting time on me and start calling every state fish and game department. After all, they must also have a blood lust for promoting trophy hunting.

      • PreyTell

        You say: “If photo Safaris are paying the bills as you say and your source National Geografic, then Zimbabwe officials would have no need to clear Mr. Palmer, Right?”

        First – Dr. Walter Palmer was not “cleared”, neither was he “exonerated” (as you have claimed in a post to my friend Fente) – he was simply not arrested and prosecuted. Big difference.

        And – why was that again – what was it you said as the reason he wasn’t prosecuted by Zimbabwe?? Let me refresh your memory:

        Quoting you from an earlier post: “Why did the Zimbabwe officials so quickly come out and clear Mr. Palmer when they at first were so quick to condemn him? I’ll tell you why, they shot themselves in the foot, and realized that they were chasing off the trophy hunting community.”

        Couldn’t have said it better myself. Bravo Mr. Butts – for unequivocally stating that the real reason Palmer walked was because Zimbabwe didn’t want to lose the revenue from trophy hunters. Yep – best politicians money can buy – those Zimbabwe politicians – and never mind “looking the other way” at law breakers killing their animals – just keep those checks coming!!

        Dr. Walter Palmer wasn’t “cleared” or “exonerated” Mr. Butts – he just wasn’t prosecuted – and you provided a clear statement (again re-quoted above) as to why he wasn’t arrested, charged and prosecuted !! Greed, Mr. Butts, and only greed is why Dr. Walter Palmer wasn’t arrested, charged, and prosecuted.

        For one thing, Palmer was on land that was not issued a permit to hunt lions in 2015 = which alone means the hunt was ILLEGAL from the get-go!!!

        Source for that forensic analysis??

        Since you decry citation from National Geographic Traveler magazine as being “anti-hunter” as my source – I guess I’ll just have to demonstrate that the position of National Geo you object to is widely held by other verifiable sources!!!

        The above citation is from CNN (Wed July 29, 2015), citing as their source “…Zimbabwe Parks and Wildlife Management Authority and Safari Operators Association of Zimbabwe.”

        CNN good enough for you as a source Mr. Butts ?? Zimbabwe Parks and Wildlife Management Authority? Safari Operators Association of Zimbabwe? Although by now I’m beginning to have my doubts that anything from which I quote can be an acceptable source to you – given your work as a taxidermist (and thereby your objectivity regarding source quoted in opposition to your arguments has to be a little, how should I say it – “suspect”) – I still maintain a slim hope 🙂

        Now – I’m going to wind this up for this entry. It’s not going to address every comment you made – but you say so many things that need to be addressed in demonstration they are either generally incorrect, or unaccompanied by anything resembling a verifiable source, or simply flatly wrong – trying to do it all at once in just one entry as I have been doing just becomes too long,

        So – I’ll be staying with the remainder of your post (above) to which this entry is responding – continuing it in the next entry.

        (Actually whether you feel that way or not – I’m encouraged that this last entry of yours (to which this response is dedicated) seems to be more “conversational” – thereby providing better grounds for discussion than previously)

      • PreyTell

        You say: “Now you say you have picked apart my argument,,,”

        (A) What did you expect? Commenting that I was being dishonest in what I said to you or that this or that was a “lie” didn’t leave me any choice but to challenge your statements – because neither charge was/is true.

        You continue: “…but in so doing proved my point, it takes money to manage wildlife”

        (B) I never said it doesn’t cost money to “manage wildlife” so there is no “point” of yours to “prove”. I have never been in either denial nor disagreement that wildlife management has related costs.

        What I’ve said – is that managing wildlife doesn’t have to go hand-in-hand with trophy hunting (distinguished from properly managed hunting for those who need to supplement their food stores) – which can still generate revenue.

        “Managing wildlife” doesn’t have to include someone like Dr. Walter Palmer who hunts-to-kill-for-ego-satiation. Do you think he ate that beautiful leopard he is pictured holding after killing it? Or – how about that rhinoceros he is pictured smiling and kneeling next to with his guide after he killed it? – think he ate the Rhino ??

        Men like Dr. Walter Palmer are a scourge to wildlife – not a benefactor from the money he and those like him spend-to-kill them as trophies !!!

        You state: “In fact it (“clearing” Palmer) could be used as a propaganda tool to promote photo Safaris”

        No need Mr. Butts – Photo/tourism Safaris already outstrip revenue from hunting by a substantial margin !!!

        Fact – Mr. Butts – Fact !!!

        “The recently released documentary “Blood Lions” estimates the annual revenue generated by a typical African hunting lodge to be $800,000 compared to $2,460,000 raised by an equivalent photo safari outfit. Operating all year round, the wildlife-watching business trumps the seasonal (6 months of the year) hunting company by serving a significantly larger number of tourists and making a substantially greater contribution to the local economy…” (Daily Southern Tourism Update, Nov 19, 2015) [ emphasis {B, I, U} mine]

        So – enough this installment. Next post will continue with taking a look at another round of your claims and comments from the same entry this one is focused upon.

      • PreyTell

        You ask: “Tell me what percent of hunters hunt just for food these days?”

        If that is not their goal – then you prove my point (again but on a different but related tangent of my objection to trophy hunters) – being – if they are not hunting to supplement food for themselves and/or their family, then they are hunting for the thrill of the hunt and kill.

        You continue: “Hunting is a tradition spanning thousands of years” – yes – but with one major difference David Butts…

        “Thousands of years ago” – was for food. There were no grocery stores, butcher shops, bakers, etc., from which to buy food either vegetable or meat. That is not the case today – at least in any industrialized nation or advanced society.

        Notwithstanding the man (or woman) who lives in Appalachia or anywhere else in such desperate poverty they have to hunt to survive, that’s a different matter than the man or woman who is first and foremost a trophy hunter. When a hunter like Dr. Walter Palmer, therefore, spends big dollars to outfit himself with equipment, pays big dollars for travel, and pays big dollars for a hunting permit (like the $50,000 +/- he paid to go kill a lion) – when someone like him goes out to kill something whether it flies, swims, crawls, walks on four legs, etc., – it’s not to eat (even if he does) – it for the thrill of killing something and to provide him with something to brag about – and no other reason !!! To argue otherwise is to be – what shall we call it (nicely) – “disingenuous” perhaps? “head-in-the-sand”? “less than…” well, you choose a word or descriptive phrase.

        When you ask: “(A) Are fishermen going fishing to catch the smallest fish, or (B) do they have a blood lust to catch the biggest fish? (my insert of (A)(B))

        Fishermen cannot see below the water to choose their prey – unlike a trophy hunter who sights down his barrel or arrow and decides whether his prey is of sufficient merit to kill or should he wait for a better specimen!

        Are there fishermen who are after “trophy” catches?? Of course their are. They charter boats, they seek that big sailfish, that ten foot shark, etc., for the same reasons that trophy hunters of “big game” seek the biggest and best of a species to kill and hang on their wall. There is no difference between the man who hunts to kill a trophy animal and one to fishes to kill a trophy fish – they have the same motivation – ego satiation, bragging-rights if you will.

        You continue: “Why have you never addressed my argument that trophy hunting is promoted my state fish and game agencies?”

        Thought I already had in several ways if not directly – so next time I will (and we both know what that answer will be [think Zimbabwe officials])

      • PreyTell

        Why is it that NONE of my attempts to address your most recent response are not posting? Surely it’s not YOU who is not wanting to see verifiable counters to your arguments – but those who don’t want such information to be seen by others trying to decide who is right and who isn’t regarding the arguments being put forth by hunters in justification of what they are doing.

      • PreyTell

        Where is my response to this?

      • PreyTell

        David Butts: “The reality is, that without trophy hunting, wildlife altogether will disappear”

        In 1960, there were 400,000 lions living in the wild. Today, there are just 20,000!!

        In 1980, there were 1,200,000 African elephants in the wild. As of 2012, there were 420,000!!

        In 2000, there were 140,000 giraffes in the wild. Today there are 58,000!!

        In 1990, there were 100,000 Cheetah living in the wild. Today about 10,000

        In 1970, an estimated 65,000 black rhinos could be found throughout sub-Saharan Africa. Today there are fewer than 2,500 left, in pockets in Zimbabwe, South Africa, Kenya, Namibia, and Tanzania

        So – oh yes Mr. Butts – hunters are doing a magnificent job of conserving African wildlife. Whatever would all those creatures do without their protectors paying all those enormous fees to hunt and kill them to preserve their kind.

      • PreyTell

        ..

      • PreyTell

        Here’s a good example of your trophy hunter Mr. Butts.

        The headline reads: “Pet Deer Likely Killed By Trophy Hunters To Seize Antlers worth $20,000” (ABC News, Australia, Aug 05, 2015)

        http://www(DOT)msn(DOT)com/en-au/news/australia/victorian-pet-deer-killer-gutless-owner-says/ar-BBlpnOS

        http://www(DOT)abc(EOT)net(DOT)au/news/2015-08-06/pet-deer-decapitated-antlers-taken-by-trophy-hunters-myrtleford/6676428

      • David Butts

        Dear Mr. Prey Tell, You throw numbers around like a drunken sailor spends money. Here is your assignment, Kenya is a no hunting country. has been since way back in the 70’s. Get on the internet and find population estimates of elephants, giraffes, lions, and buffalo. do this for 1980, 1990, and present day. Then explain to me if there is no hunting why the drastic decline in the numbers of these animals. Now I know its hard for you, but be honest. Now do the same for Zimbabwe. To make it easier, just do lions, and elephants populations since 1990. Remember Zimbabwe allows hunting as you know. Try to find a source other than PETA, or National Geographic. Remember be honest. I know you have lots of time on your hand so this shouldn’t be very hard. Good luck!

      • PreyTell

        Sorry to disappoint you Mr. Butts – but those “numbers” were not provided by either PETA or National Geographic – and frankly sir, it wouldn’t matter if they were.

        “You throw numbers around like a drunken sailor spends money”

        At least I have “numbers” backed up with verifiable sources Mr. Butts – contrasted with only denials and/or impugning National Geographic from you.

        Oh – and BTW – I note that you while you take pains to denounce anything produced which contradicts your statements and/or position – you remain strangely silent when the source is from AFRICA!!! (such as those from Zimbabwe Parks and Wildlife Management Authority and Safari Operators Association of Zimbabwe cited previously) countering your claims that Dr. Walter Palmer was not in an illegal hunt!!! Double standard Mr. Butts??

        Additional response on the way…..

      • David Butts

        Look, you really need to get a life. Listen, how many times have you been to Africa? How many families do you personally know in Africa. Do you my friend have first hand knowledge on what goes on over there? As you know, you can get anything you want to bolster your argument off the internet. But who do you associate with in Africa? I literally know hundreds of people in Africa, and I am on a first name basis with them. Just check my face book page, like I’m sure you already have. I have been in the homes of many of the humblest of house holds. These folks many of them have small children. They are all involved in the taxidermy industry. I have taught many of them over the years. With unemployment above 30 percent in many areas, You would take away the hunting industry, and put these folks out on the street. You have not provided a good argument that hunting is detrimental to wildlife. You have not followed up on my challenges or points. Why are they going to kill 1000 buffalo in Yellowstone? Why if hunting is so evil? With Obama giving out food stamps to anyone who wants it, It actually costs more money to hunt in the US, than to just get the food from welfare programs if you are poor. So really, the folks that are killing food for their families, are probably from 3rd world countries, and they my friend are the problem. Why? Because they are poaching out all the game. yup Its pretty ironic isn’t it. Now my position has come full circle. you take away hunting, take away jobs, putting people into poverty, and they are forced to poach for a living, and it results in a loss for wildlife. By the way you better tell all the news agencies that they got the Walter Palmer story wrong, because none of them know that. I saw the report where he in fact was cleared. Maybe try BBC network, by the way listen to the biologist who tagged Cecil talk about the virtues of hunting. Dont bother responding back to me, I’m no longer going to waste….. any more time posting my thoughts on this matter. You my friend really have a big chip on your shoulder, and are unable to accept truth.

      • David Butts

        This is what you need to do, I know you can use the internet, Type in bbcnews then you can put cecil the lion in the search box then scroll down to the story on the biologist Brent Sapelkamp, and listen to what he has to say. He does not support a ban on hunting in his own words. So stop telling half truths, and deal with the full truth. Here it is coming from the mouth of the biologist who tagged the lion.

      • PreyTell

        You state: “…stop telling half truths”

        Let’s review what you are saying are “half truths” Mr. Butts.

        List them

      • David Butts

        Half truth is showing declining numbers of wildlife over a number of decades. That may be true, in some regions, To say then, that the cause is trophy hunting, is a lie. That is called a half truth. to Say that Mr. Palmer was on a illegal hunt is a half truth. He had a permit to hunt lions, so stated by authorities. and was cleared by them of hunting illegally. So now if his hunting guide and land owner miss lead him unawares, then that my friend is called a half truth. Lawyers, and democrats use that tactic all the time. Now I have first hand knowledge of what happens when you take trophy hunting away. I was hunting waterbuck in Africa last April. I was hunting for one animal. as we came off the mountain, I witnessed a number of people, and dogs running through the bush. I asked my guide who they were, He said they were poachers. He got on the radio and notified staff at camp. As we caught up to where they ran from, My guide scoped up one of their dogs, and shot it. We drove quickly to an area they had to cross, and meet up with reinforcements. The poachers, who had been setting snares were caught and held at gunpoint. I observed all of this first hand. There were many snares we discovered, some with struggling animals that had been caught. some were found dead in snares that were no longer usable for food.The folks who were setting the snares were poor local people. They didnt care about protecting wildlife, they were killing indiscriminately. Many animals they kill are forgotten left to rot in the snares. Now you may not like trophy hunting, That is your right, but dont tell me that I am somehow unethical or less of a person because I am involved in it. And especially stop using misleading information to bolster your agenda.

      • PreyTell

        Well Mr. Butts – once again – you deliberately misrepresent (or misrepresent because you read carelessly) what I have said !!!

        I never said that trophy hunters are the sole cause of the decrease of wildlife in Africa – what I have said is they represent the worst sort of hunters whether in Africa or anywhere else in the world because they are there to kill solely for the thrill of it and to have something to brag about – and while we are on that part of your false accusation – “trophy hunters” are the ONLY ones that the growth of “canned hunts” where lions are raised in captivity with gentling protocols, and then releasing then into fenced areas to be killed by men (and women) to brag about and for NO other reason than that – to brag about !!!

        More when I have the time…(and I remember you don’t support canned hunts…and there are in this first quick read-through some things that I agree with you and commend!)

      • David Butts

        Your right, When I was trophy hunting and came across those poachers, who were indiscriminately killing wildlife, I was much worse then them, They took the lives of many animals, and gave nothing back. I took one animal, paid 3,000.00 for the trophy fee, supported 20 support staff, cooks, trackers, guide, and land owner, In total I paid over $10,000.00 for this experience, and stopped 6 poachers. I’m a real scourge to wildlife. In addition I paid another 2,000.00 to exporters who handled the trophies to export them to the states. Because of my Trophy Hunting experience, the land owner can continue to provide resources to support his 100,000 acre game preserve, where all types of game exist. After all, I am the “worst sort of hunter”, your words not mine. Hey you probably are a pretty good person, I hold no malice towards you, but you are wrong about the benefits of trophy hunting. Have a good Christmas!

      • PreyTell

        Enough with the sarcasm sir. You have made many statements for which there are legitimate counters to from credible and verifiable sources I have used to demonstrate you are not a ‘neutral’ voice on the matter beginning with you earning your livelihood from taxidermy and progressing from there to mount all manner of justifications for trophy hunters as well as impugning me including making outright false statements about my “agenda”, what you allude to I have said – when I haven’t, etc.

        The two things we can and have agreed upon – are the evil of “canned hunts” put on by unscrupulous landowners and the like and also poachers who are killing some of Africa’s most iconic beasts – not for food as described in your previous comment – but for the money can make from those idiotic and backward superstitious buyers who want to use animal parts in their “medicinal” concoctions associated with “traditional” Chinese medicine and other culture’s similar beliefs ranging from imagined cancer cures to (also imagined) enhancing sexual performance. I don’t know if there is a way to stamp out this type of cultural-based slaughter of elephants, rhinos, etc., for body parts by those seeking to profit from it. Even it nations like China institute a total ban on such body parts, etc., there will always be a black market in which the poachers will continue to flourish.

        So back to your two most recent entries – once again – I’m going to take apart one of your most consistent themes – that of the case of Dr. Walter Palmer – and – I want to address the oft-heard argument about how the poor villagers are so helped to eat by trophy hunters kills which are given to them.

        Even though I am retired, I am the sole caregiver of a disabled spouse – and that takes up a great deal of the “time” you think I have to respond – so – allow me to compose these two responses (just described) which I will do (but have to work on here and there between running to multiple medical specialists and doing 99% of the tasks at home) – which I will put up as soon as I can.

      • David Butts

        Hey listen, I’m not going to respond to your last post, But listen on a more personal note being the Christmas season and all I want to wish you the best. I have no idea of your personal challenges you are dealing with, but you are in my thoughts, and pray that the spirit of this time of year provides a measure of peace to you and your wife. Merry Christmas, Regards Dave

      • PreyTell

        Thanks – (and I haven’t finished ‘cleaning up’ this last response).

        I do appreciate your kind thoughts and well wishes.

        (and I still hope you will at least read the above – not responding will not be presumed by me to be in agreement 🙂

      • PreyTell

        (correcting coding will re-enter later)

    • sanford1941

      Sounds to me like you just want to whine like a little girl about your girlfriends canned hunting habits.

      • David Butts

        This story came out months ago, What do you know about my hunting ethics? You sound like you just need to spout off on something you know very little about. Have you Mr. sanford1941 ever been to Africa? Do you speak Afrikaans? Would you take a hugely successful sustainable use management tool away from the people of South Africa? would you take away millions of dollars from the economies from many African countries. Do you know what Sustainable Use means? Do you and me a favor. do your research first, and then when you can have an intelligent discussion, I would love to have a discussion with you. By the way, I speak Afrikaans, and have lived in South Africa and work in the wildlife industry. Without the hunting game farms, Wildlife populations there would be pushed out and replaced with livestock. The same wildlife concerns are found here in the States. By the way Walter Palmer was cleared of any wrong doing, Since then two people have been killed in Hwange Park by lions.

      • sanford1941

        you guys always hide behind stories of “conservation ” and spout inanities about saving wildlife.
        the issue at hand is the trophy hunting mentality. it takes a deranged mind to attain any pleasure or sense of accomplishment and self realization out of killing an animal that is not needed for food. even if the animal is eaten they are not hunted for that. they are hunted for pleasure.
        What possible fantasy of courage can you fulfill by shooting an animal with a high powered rifle ,often from several hundred yards away and with a guide and back up protection in case you miss? it is a rich persons’ armed disneyland trip for weak people that never outgrew the urge to destroy things which they can assert their power over.
        the whole industry,no matter how ecologically responsible it claims to be is built on the need of weak, vainful people.
        it is insulting for you to pretend that you are doing a service to animals in general by promoting these canned hunts.

      • David Butts

        First of all your accusation of it being a canned hunt is unfounded. Second, I hunt with bow and arrow, not remotely the same as shooting an animal from a long distance. I suppose you must be a vegan, since your description of eating game when it is not needed for food is also erroneous. People have been hunting since the dawn of time. Were are forefathers also to be described as “weak and vainful people”? How much money have you personally contributed for the preservation of wildlife? Thought so. How about put your money where your mouth is.

      • sanford1941

        trophy hunting is not subsistence hunting. trophy animals are not being killed for meat. they are being killed for pleasure. there is no arguing that point. you do it because you like to kill animals. you dont do it for respect of nature or laughably as i’ve heard recently , for respect of the animal. it is for the vanity of projecting your power over an animal that evolutionarily speaking is at a severe disadvantage. good for you . you are capable of decimating animals that have been killed by men for thousands of years with much less technological , intellectual and experiential advantages than you. big deal. you proved exactly nothing.
        as to the canned aspect. they are all canned hunts. a wildlife preserve may not be a fenced in 10 acre lot, but effectively, when you have a guide that tracts and scouts for you , stalks for you and lets a fat middle aged urban moron take a shot after being essentially carried to the animal because , the idiot read some hemingway when he was a teenager,. that my friend, is about as canned as you can get.

      • David Butts

        Same old talking points. Pretty lame. So how much money have you contributed to wildlife conservation? You didnt answer the question. What about encroachment concerns? You know people like to build homes on historical animal habitat. What about displaced animals? Oh, and lions, also attack and kill people. Yes, I know, perhaps we can move excess numbers of lions to “Lion sanctuaries”. Look it up, Another lion killed a park ranger who wasnt hunting at all, but leading a photo safari in Hwange park. Tough luck I guess. I own a peach orchard. Mule deer often come down and damage my trees. So should I build a 10 foot perimeter fence to keep them out? You live in a fantasy world my friend where animals have a higher standing than people. Hunting is not Immoral as you believe. None of the game is ever wasted. Hunters should all be thanked for the millions of dollars they contribute to not only wildlife but local communities as well. You have contributed nothing, only spouting off your mouth. Go to some of these Game farms in the U.S. and Africa. See first hand the beauty of nature made possible though hunting. Then look at neighboring farms where there is no hunting. The contrast is astounding. No these farms are not 10 acre pens as you believe, many exceed 100 thousand acres. Hardly a canned hunt. But I wont confuse you any more with the facts, you have your talking points, no need to reason.

      • sanford1941

        facts? hahaha, go clean your guns buddy. i think you need to polish them some more . rub them really hard and you’ll feel a lot better.
        those are the “facts” you keep ignoring you lonely little throwback boy.

        i bet you buy yourself prostitutes and tell yourself you saw a glint in her eye too. hhahahahah loser.

      • David Butts

        When you dont have anything intelligent to say then attack the messenger. Yup,that might work. Name calling, yup that will teach him A philosopher once said “Dont cast your pearls before swine” I’ll let you google that one. I’ll ask you again It takes money to protect Wildlife. How much have you contributed? I think I’ll follow the council, and find a higher life form to have this discussion. Prostitutes? Really? Pull yourself out of the gutter man.

      • sanford1941

        haha ha “philosopher” ? you must think very highly of yourself. you are just a self justifying little wreck of a man that cannot admit his own own insecurities about himself and needs to hide them behind a pathetically obvious argument.
        let me just say that if you call yourself a conservationist and you pretend to argue about the amount of money you contribute as a measure of yourself then you would not need to kill animals to save them.You would just contribute.
        at least be man enough to stop pretending that what you do is nothng more than a narcissitic pursuit .its funny that many hunters speak of hunting as a semi mystical path to their true nature yet are trapped in a laughably self deluded circular argument about conservation.
        trophy hunting is nothing more than your way of pretending you are tougher or more manly than others. its a childish drive that any real man puts in context by the time they turn 20. if you desire to prove your real worth, be selfless. that is the measure of a man. it certainly isnt your ability to throw the fig leaf of conservation on an industry that monetizes the worst kind of vanity.nobody is falling for it.

      • NormanWells

        ‘..you are just a …’ you’ve lost when you have to resort to that.

      • NormanWells

        Hi David Butts. I don’t hunt but support the majority who do it properly. I take a particular interest in paid hunting, specifically in Africa where it contributes to the economy of people who can really use it. Guiding and lodging is an industry and in some areas the fees are available to local people. As well the meat is used when paid hunting occurs (as opposed to poaching where the poachers just flee and leave it to rot). I’m surprised what those people will eat and it indicates their poverty. Even lions probably have some nutritional value. I saw a video of people harvesting a bloated up hippo that had floated down the river. Have to be pretty desperate to go for that.
        There is a case for paid hunting to promote conservation as well. Where hunting isn’t allowed, poaching will remove problem wildlife and the locals say little or nothing because the wildlife is problematic in many cases destroying crops, killing people and livestock. Where economic activity from paid hunting occurs, those same people see wildlife as an asset rather than a liability and poaching is discouraged since more can be made and better distributed if a wealthy foreigner brings a bundle of money in to do it. that’s why Zimbabwe has an oversupply of elephants and Kenya is losing them.
        My interest stems from my empathy I have for those Africans since I’m a farmer who has wildlife damage. But not anywhere near as bad as those people do. I figure anti hunters have a very closed mind on the topic. For westerners to say no hunting should be allowed in Africa is economic and cultural imperialism in my opinion.

      • David Butts

        Thanks for your thoughtful defense of hunting. It would seem that the anti hunting crowd would rather shoot the messenger than consider the message. There is one simple basic truth. For animals to survive in our present day world, they have to have a monetary value as well as an aesthetic value. That is the only thing that will save them. The hunting industry provides the value. When rules are imposed on importing wildlife products, Hunting trophies, Their habitat will be utilized for something else,Livestock, housing, mining etc. The idea of “Sustainable Use”, maintains healthy numbers of animals for decades to come, Where all benefit.

      • NormanWells

        Well it’s a very emotive issue isn’t it? One side quickly stoops to name calling when they hear a view that is new to them. You know even many hunters in the west don’t support paid hunting in Africa, where it’s done much good.

  • alita

    It’s out there of the pattern as stated in the article already, he has “history of getting in trouble with wildlife agencies.”
    It’s not like it would be some little new offense.

  • Carol

    With this guy’s past history, it is glaringly obvious that he has NO respect for the laws and does whatever he pleases. Throw the book at him, he should NEVER be allowed to hunt anything again. What a jerk this total tool is.

    • NormanWells

      Shouldn’t he be found guilty of a crime punishable by losing hunting rights first? Oh. Sorry I thought we were trying to be logical here.

      • Jmack

        He should be dressed in high heels and lipstick and made to perform Donkey Shows in Tijuana for a year like all Trophy hunters should be. Then put him on trial for killing Cecil. After he is found guilty he should be fed alive to the lions or wild pigs. I don’t care that some corrupt backwards banana republic did not charge him with a crime. He is Satan.

      • NormanWells

        A little carried away, aren’t you?

      • Jmack

        Not at all. Walter Palmer epitomizes everything that is evil about mankind – sloth, jealousy, hatred, wastefulness, laziness, and arrogance. He is a rapist who steals the beauty of majestic animals for self promotion. I’m not sure if there is a God. Afterall, how could there be someone like Walter Palmer on this earth if God exists? But if there is a god, sending Palmer to Hell I don’t think would be punishment enough. There has to be something worse for him and I hope God has a plan for him.

  • NormanWells

    ‘…I didn’t see them chase deer but there’s no reason to be going back and forth so many times…’. Gosh when I was looking for that part that fell off my haybine someone watching could have phoned the cops.

  • Tahoedirt

    I’d like to start a reward fund for anyone that kills this POS.

  • Tahoedirt

    I don’t mind hunting and I own some guns- That said, it’s hard to imagine any good coming from shooting an elephant or lion, or trophy hunting at all ??