It may still be November, but Christmas may have come early for firearm enthusiasts and collectors eagerly anticipating the thousands of surplus 1911 pistols that are now headed to the Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP).

The news that roughly 100,000 surplus M1911 and M1911A1 pistols could be transferred to the organization after US Representative Mike Rogers (R-Alabama) under an amendment to the 2016 National Defense Authorization Act led to much excitement across the gun world. However, President Barack Obama vetoed an earlier draft of the bill last month, citing inadequate funding for military healthcare, meaningful reform, and language that would prevent the closing of the Guantanamo Bay detention facility. Obama signed a revised bill last Wednesday after the approval of the Bipartisan Budget Act of 2015, which including a number of changes to discretionary spending.

“The Congress has now revised the National Defense Authorization Act to incorporate these new funding changes and has altered the funding authorization provisions to which I objected,” Obama said in a statement last week. “I am therefore signing this annual defense authorization legislation because it includes vital benefits for military personnel and their families, authorities to facilitate ongoing operations around the globe, and important reforms to the military retirement system, as well as partial reforms to other military compensation programs.”

Among other things, the defense bill authorizes appropriations for the Department of Defense and a host of policy updates, including allowing personal firearms on stateside bases, streamlining the process for adopting military dogs and other animals by their former handlers, and developing gender-neutral occupational standards.

The passage of the act also means that 100,000 1911 pistols may soon be headed to the CMP, where they could be purchased by the general public. The M1911 is one of the most iconic and revered firearms in US military history. First designed by the now-legendary gun maker John Browning in 1911, the pistol has served with distinction in the US military for 75 years before being replaced by the Beretta M9 in 1986. Updated versions of the pistol are still in service with select military units around the world.

According to Rogers, it cost taxpayers about $200,000 each year to store the surplus pistols, of which only about 8,000 have been sold to law enforcement agencies or transferred abroad. The signing of the authorization act means that 10,000 of the firearms will be transferred over to the CMP for a pilot program, and if all goes well, the rest of the stock will be offered as well.

“As a gun owner and strong believer in the Second Amendment, my proposal is a common-sense approach to eliminating an unnecessary cost to the Federal government while allowing the very capable CMP to handle the 1911 sale of these vintage firearms that otherwise would just sit in storage,” Rogers said in a press release in May. “This amendment is a win-win for the taxpayer.”

Rogers represents the district that includes the Anniston Army Depot, where the surplus firearms are kept. The CMP’s primary warehouse, sales processing, and distribution center are also located in Anniston, Alabama.

Image from Illegitimate Barrister on the Wikimedia Commons

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135 thoughts on “Obama Signs Defense Bill Allowing Public Sale of Surplus 1911 Pistols

  1. The less amoral greedy NRA has to do with this, the better. As a Vietnam-era veteran, I qualify and will be looking to acquire one of these classics ASAP. Just Emailed a thank you to Our President for not objecting to this aspect of the bill after demanding improvements to the military benefits shortcomings of a previous version he had refused to sign. I also noted that NONE of the fear-mongering NRA/GOA and other crackpot predictions that he would ban and collect our guns have come to pass or even been proposed in his two terms. Finally, I asked him to seek universal registration (as just proposed for UAVs) plus mandatory pre buy mental health evaluation requirements henceforth (as are required for private pilots and others with lives in their hands). I also encouraged him to continue trying to overcome NRA-bribed politician opposition to credible, unbiased research on the risks vs benefits of keeping firearms at home and/or in cars. That information is especially important for consumers considering a first purchase in the face of deliberately misleading threat scenario marketing by industry. Seems to me that such ready access by untrained, unregistered, and anger management shortage owners MUST add to deaths of innocents in domestic violence and road rage incidents far more often than it repels criminals. NRA must fear that is true also or it would not so desperately oppose reliable (vs Kleck FSU sham research) studies.

      1. You would know, Kevin.
        Good factual response, as expected from you and “gfr”.
        You two are just worried you couldn’t pass even a cursory mental health/anger management eval for your next.
        And thanks to you and the NRA ensuring those aren’t required or caring WHO buys guns, a working mom, a veteran, and a police officer are dead in Colorado Springs.

      2. and that’s plain ignorance talking, tell me exactly how the NRA had a hand in any of that. i pray you never get a gun, you sir scare the shit out of me

      3. Dear Jim,
        You and the panicked hordes of fact free, in denial, gun nuts (as opposed to rational, objective gun owners) displayed here just cannot post without lies, threats, and insults… apparently hoping they compensate for ignorance and illogic.

        Y’all are Exhibit One that both the gun culture and political climate have been poisoned by extremists incapable of productive colloquy.

        I mentioned the NRA in my Letter of Appreciation to Our President for approving this program and making liars out of all of you by not trying to confiscate your guns… (unfortunately not even from those who by their rabid posts here clearly should not have them)

        An NRA reference is additionally relevant because decades ago, the CMP was allowed to sell M1911 pistols to qualified NRA Life members but this new opportunity for qualified Americans to buy M1911A1s through the CMP has nothing to do with the NRA.

        Finally and most despicably and tragically, the NRA’s tens of millions in political bribes has blocked objective risk/benefit research into the advisability of keeping guns in homes and cars and defeated legislation that would have reduced — nota bene: “reduced” not eliminated — the number of guns purchased by incompetents and the number of guns used in “no second chance” suicides, used to kill spouses and family members, and used to fulfill right wing religious terrorists’ fantasies of killing opponents… which is where Colorado Springs comes in.

      4. I like how you open with “fact free in denial gun nuts” and then brag about being insult free! Hmmm…i also like how you say Obama never TRIED to take our guns, when he clearly has stated he wants Australian type confiscation. The problem with the mental health aspect is that doctors can’t and won’t be required to submit information on the mental health of their patients. The NRA has nothing to do with this. You sir are guilty of throwing insults in every post you make here all the while claiming to be above that and accusing others of the same tactic. Think about that…

      5. Did I say i would remain insult free in the face of your interminable lying BS?
        Well baby, as the Stones sang, it’s all over now.
        Ad hominem again? OK Truhawk you miserable lying sack.
        No more Mr Nice Guy.
        Our President stated he admired the intelligence and determination of the Australian citizens in overcoming their minority of gun nuts (my words) to adopt more effective gun controls. He NEVER said he wanted to propose exactly the same requirements. It was BATF that independently and appropriately sought to reclassify “green tip” ammo from sporting to restricted (but has not done so yet).
        So F you, ya insurrectionist fundamentalist christian racist gun nuts. Those are safe adjectives based on the desperate tenacity with which you, Hillbully, Truhawk, venom526, et al try to destroy my (vietnam-era active duty veteran and gun owner) simple sincere advocacy of common sense and feasible gun controls (including exposing and overcoming y’all’s and the NRA’s simply
        BIZARRE, INSANE, INDEFENSIBLE opposition to using the no-fly list to prevent terrorist
        suspects from buying semi-automatic weapons) while you’re seeking to discredit
        my exposure of NRA lies and despicable goals/methods (by your lying about
        “taking our guns”, blocking all credible research on gun
        risks/benefits, and spending fifty million member dollars in bribes to
        politicians hoping to preserve gun industry blood-soaked profits).
        Perhaps most galling to you is my admiration and praise for
        Our Courageous President’s refusal to dishonor innocent victims (of the gun
        violence YOU and the NRA continue to facilitate) by giving up on devising and
        implementing strengthened and more effective gun controls despite intransigent
        mindless republican opposition.
        You also clearly loathe my honoring active duty combat casualty liberals, women, and homosexuals.
        Your math also sux. I enlisted in August 1970 well BEFORE the 73 withdrawals and 75 evacuation and I am doubting your knowledge of how dream sheets work. I placed what I was volunteering for in priority order and when I filled it out it could be YEARS before any action was taken on it amid major geopolitical shifts. I listed Vietnam first on EVERY one I submitted through 75 with Thailand second and Korea third.
        You now owe me personally an apology and retraction in addition to an apology to those
        other three groups. Let’s see it.

      6. “viet-nam era veteran” of what, escape to Canada? I am a Viet-Nam veteran of two tours in the US Marine Corps, and, having seen what happens to defenseless civilians strongly advocate for the right of all citizens to keep and bear arms WITHOUT infringement. Apparently, you have no concept of the meaning of “shall not be infringed”. And I seriously doubt you are, in fact, a gun owner.

      7. you, sir (advisedly), have no concept of “freedom”, innate natural rights to self-defense, nor the acknowledgement in the Bill of Rights of those natural rights, nor evidently of history. It is none of your business or concern if anyone owns the means of self-defense, nor of what means they choose. Your only concern is keeping yourself and your own family and property safe, so get to it…. and butt out of my business.

      8. What the hell does Colorado springs have to do with thousands of antique service pistols as well as the peoples property being returned to them and furthermore there is no evidence that a CMP firearm returned to private hands was or has ever been used in a crime…….stupid tant!

      9. Dear Gustovcutyourcockoff,
        See above… and if there were universal registration and serial number databases going back to the start of those CMP programs, you’d have that evidence. While you’re thrashing around consumed with displaced anger from the pathetic state of your personal life and hurling vapid instults as all gun nuts seem to do, try to remember I support such programs.

      10. Classic gun nut/fundamentalist logic: simply say something you wish were true, without any substantiation, and for equally ignorant it becomes true… no matter how absurd and insupportable.

      11. Just to pick one issue, I have a problem with the concept of ‘Mental Health Screenings’ prior to purchase of, or required for ownership of a firearm. As an active-duty servicemember, I have noted a serious problem with mental health diagnosis in the Veteran community. Many so-called experts have vastly different ideas of what constitutes PTSD vs. Adjustment Disorder vs. PTS vs. Normal Stress. Without true knowledge of what a Soldier’s issues are or how bad, even in what way they are bad I fear many Veterans would be denied the opportunity to own firearms even if they pose little or no risk to the public. After serving their country in battle I think you as a vet can see that this would be a grave injustice.

      12. SO…. rather a hundred housewives or schoolkids die then one vet be subjected to more thorough testing? Comes down to false positives vs false negatives… the former being far less dangerous to society than the latter.

      13. Are you threatening all white men or just Kevin and you wonder why so many STUPID niggers get shot everyday.

      14. …and right on cue, the flaming racist component of the NRA’s gun nut fundamentalist legion reports for duty.

      15. Dont be stupid. Can you even read his ID? dawhitemanbedead? I cant believe you ever served. If you did your certainly still in shell shock. We’re done with the threats. Period. You/them want to make it racist…so be it. When they punch your daughter in the mouth when she isnt looking,just tell her to drop the charges or else shes a racist….dumbass

      16. Whiney DougS says real NRA men don’t hurl spurious insults, “dumbass”.
        And furthermore, dumbass, maybe YOU should learn to read. My post was directed to the NRA fan known as “me” NOT our local friendly agente provocateur “dawhite”
        And “Don’t be stupid” ! Speaking in a mocking dialectic is racist as is the “N” word both of which have been used repeatedly on this page. And should be wherever the author feels is appropriate.
        Finally, which do YOU think contains the highest percentage of racists:
        The Tea Party
        The NRA
        The Republican party
        or
        The Democratic party?
        “Survey SAYS:” I got the order right.

      17. Ideologically, and in general, How do you stand? We both seem to have more time in the pay line, than most have in the Chow line, Over.

      18. dawhitemanbedead..( 2nd grade spelling)
        Well well mr. badass..why dont you go public? Why dont dont you carry you hood rat ass out in the street with your “white man” shit big boy. Of course you’ll bring the entire hood with you and punch women and old people while they’re not looking because one on one you arent shit.Your a coward. The intelligence(or lack of) in your spelling mirrors your ignorance in math. Grab a dictionary, look up minority.
        Take this with you to the ebt office…..we are waiting for you. I’ve never hated black people for being black, but you punk ass thugs have changed that. I imagine there’s many more whites thinking the same. If you think your a minority now wait until the fight is over. You’ll wish you took the first Escalade with 40″ wheels back to africa. Take that to the bank…wait..dont go to the bank. Youll probably try to rob it. Stay stupid my friend. You have no idea what your asking for but we’re willing to give it to you 😉

      19. Must be even rougher being unable to protect yourself, expecting others to Man up and protect your spineless existence. Now that we have both made a unwarranted comments against one another’s rights. Mine to legally obtain own and possess a firearm. And yours in being able to make stupid warrantless comments that display your desire to take away my rights.

      20. You have know common sense, or are too illiterate to understand what the NRA is even about. You are probably a libtard Dumbocrat that believes our Traitor n’ Chief is supporting freedom to own guns even though he has come out saying he wants guns confiscated.

      21. Dear injun,
        As with most fundamentalist gun nuts, you are a liar in so many ways it is hard to keep up.
        You hilariously wrote (to Kevin no less): “You have know common sense, or are too illiterate to understand what the NRA is even about.”
        I’ll let others judge from that sentence which of us is illiterate.
        See my reply to “Jim” [above] ref y’alls inability to post without insults.
        And the following remains true to this day…
        Our Caring, Thoughtful, Courageous, Christian, American-Born President Obama, said on September 9, 2008:
        I just want to be absolutely clear, alright. So I don’t want any misunderstanding. When ya’ll go home and you’re talking to your buddies, and they say, “Ah, he wants to take my gun away,” you’ve heard it here — I’m on television so everybody knows it — I believe in the Second Amendment. I believe in people’s lawful right to bear arms. I will not take your shotgun away. I will not take your rifle away. I won’t take your handgun away. … So, there are some common-sense gun safety laws that I believe in. But I am not going to take your guns away. So if you want to find an excuse not to vote for me, don’t use that one. Cause that just ain’t true.

      22. GoomBah, apparently you choose to ignore Obama’s desire to enact a program similar in nature to that in Australia that resulted in large numbers of gun confiscation and destruction. I would interested in seeing how you rationalize those comments!
        And I can’t help but notice that every response you have posted includes general and specific insults to anyone disagreeing with you. Perhaps you should look at your own hyprocrisy in commenting.

      23. Dougie, you’re such a facile liar. I started out politely and exclusively factually but my First Amendment lets me respond in kind to you and your pals attacking with insults and no facts or even outright lies, as you have just done again. “Every” response? Perhaps you should learn to count.

        “Similar in nature” covers a lot of ground and Our President has only noted the effectiveness of the 1996 law passed in Australia by the incontestably conservative right wing government when their entire nation was sickened by the escalating bloodshed due to guns in the hands of incompetents, (which is fine with the NRA). There has not been a single mass murder there since then, the firearm homicide rate fell by 59 percent, and the firearm suicide rate fell by 65 percent in the decade after the law was introduced. You don’t want that here. Fair enough.
        But Our President has not proposed anything so sweeping.
        Stop lying.

      24. So explain his move with the UN’s “gun treaty” which requires “collecting all guns”.
        Oh…you cant.

      25. 1. Well you didn’t give me much of a chance!
        You, DougS, and the other
        facile liars and conspiracy theorists desperately posting would be a hoot
        if you weren’t so dangerous and contributing to bloodshed of
        innocent civilians as we saw in San Bernadino yesterday.

      26. 2. You’re smiling as you swallow the splurge from the NRA and GOA and
        TownHall [dot] co m because you want it to taste like the truth

        while mind over matter ignoring that bitter sting that SHOULD show you it isn’t.

        Did you READ that treaty or an unbiased summary OF it?

        Even the notoriously right wing, anti-Our President Wall Street Journal shares the following facts.
        Treaty says NOTHING like that at all… specifically will NOT do what you
        say…does NOT affect the sovereign rights of states to control arms
        within their territories, only goes after international arms dealers feeding the type of chaos we see in Syria today.
        If there were a prebuy gun ownership tests for honesty, intelligence, and anger management skills, you’d all be enjoying paintball

      27. Be careful there Goom Bah, you are standing up for the same guy that also said;
        If things should go bad I’ll stand with the muslims!
        If you like your Dr. you can keep your Dr.
        That attack at our consulate was caused by an insulting video!
        He and Holder armed the Mexican drug cartels, he supplied arms to ISIS, don’t forget the IRS scandal!
        Shall I keep on here or do you get the message?
        When you insult the NRA you also insult millions of dedicated Americans that believe in the founding principals of our country and we also intend to defend our constitutional rights, all of them!
        And you actually think that we should believe anything Obama says,BS that’s why he’s become known as the liar-in-chief!

      28. When you recite RNC talking points and DON’T insult the NRA for complicity in the slaughter of your fellow citizens to keep their industry profitable, YOU become part of the problem, not the discussion. There is NO rational reason to oppose closing the no fly list loophole, just excuses that don’t wash and won’t wash the blood off YOUR obsessed ” I hate this guy” hands.

      29. Obama is no more a Christian then I am a Jedi Knight! Gun registration worked great for Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia! You also blast everyone’s opinions that you don’t agree with! Tell your buddy Barry to enforce the Gun laws on the books not make new ones everytime there is a shooting! As a Desert Storm vet and a patriot I support my brothers and sisters in the military! I also support all vets and the US constitution!

      30. You are lying, or you get your info from Fox Entertainment. The NRA tells every one that “Obama is coming for your guns”, because gun and ammo sales go up. That’s what it’s all about, helping gun and ammo manufacturers.

    1. Its amazing how many libta rds are actually Vietnam combat veterans. Were you a member of Seal team 6 as well?
      .
      Here’s a thought you stup id coc ksuck er – American gun owners LIKE the NRA because they stand up for our civil rights, and they DON’T like obama at all because he routinely ignores the 2nd amendment.
      .
      And FYI there is no requirement for a mental health evaluation to get a pilots license.

      1. Vapid venal insults, lies, and uncontrollable anger are recognized markers for psychosis. Get help, “gfr”.

        Are you a gun owner now and have a significant other (male or female) living with you? Please show them that post because they may not realize the danger they are in with such an angry, armed, totally irrational, dishonest individual under the same roof.

        The kindest thing I can say after that rant is you and Kevin are just worried you couldn’t pass even a cursory mental health/anger management eval for your next gun purchase. Kevin might squeak by. You? No way.

        And now for a few facts that in normal, well-socialized individuals would produce an admission of error followed by an apology and retraction, but with you…

        1. I NEVER said or implied I was a combat veteran. I enlisted to fight in Vietnam, I volunteered to fight in Vietnam. I was trained and qualified to fight in Vietnam. My “dream sheet” assignment requests always began with a Vietnam locus, but I never got sent there as events wound down mid/late 70s. It would be amazing to you how many liberals, homosexuals, and women served with distinction and died in Vietnam and Iraq. Apologize to and thank them now.

        2. Over 3,500 FAA Aviation Medical Examiners are designated, qualified and required to evaluate the physical AND mental health of EVERY pilot applicant. If there is ANY indication from the history or interview or available documentation (you would FAIL just based on a review of your post) of ANY behavioral, anger management, or other mental health issues, the issuance is deferred, a detailed report sent to AAM-300 for comprehensive review, and the applicant is usually required to undergo a full psychological AND psychiatric evaluation. Due to the differences in training and areas of expertise, separate evaluations and reports are required from both a qualified psychiatrist and a qualified clinical psychologist for determining an airman’s fitness to be a pilot. The AME observes and records: the flow of associations, mood, and memory; Indications of cognitive problems with concentration, attention, or confusion; any’slow or vague responses; appearance; behavior; mood (abnormal if excessively angry, sad, euphoric, or labile); communication (abnormal if does not answer questions directly); etc

        3. The NRA has opposed nearly every attempt to assess and share with prospective purchasers the risks vs benefits of keeping guns in homes/cars, to expand background checks/registrations to all gun sales, and to apply even cursory mental health evaluations such as performed by FAA AMEs for exercising far less inherently lethal privileges. Cars and airplanes are not designed to kill: guns are. The failure to implement those steps has cost the lives of tens of thousands of innocent American citizens just so you do not need to fill out a form or pass an exam less odious and rigorous than that to fly or drive. WHAT ABOUT THE CIVIL RIGHTS OF THOSE DEAD AMERICANS?

      2. My God “Goom Bah”, your a saint in your own mind, aren’t you! I too am a Vietnam Vet June 66 – Dec 67. I flew Med Evac and with the 37th Air Rescue and Recovery.

      3. My Dog “Tom”, good for you.
        Too bad you couldn’t have shared that without the unwarranted ad hominem attack. I did six, you did one. I don’t think that makes either of us saints.
        My service was relevant as one of the qualification routes to purchasing from the CMP.
        Pray tell why you and your fellow fundamentalist gun nuts felt compelled to attack it?

      4. Well it wasn’t to get rich quick, MiniMe.
        But you’re omniscient so you tell me.
        If not to fight in defense of my Country [like three generations of my family before me),
        why DID I enlist?
        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
        You and the panicked hordes of fact free, in denial, gun nuts (as opposed to rational, objective gun owners) displayed here just cannot post without lies, threats, and insults… apparently hoping they compensate for ignorance and illogic.
        Y’all are Exhibit One that both the gun culture and political climate have been poisoned by extremists incapable of productive colloquy.

      5. Cars and planes are not designated in the Constitution as a right to citizens. While this right has been subjected to multitudes of restrictions by so called feel good legislators, the fact reamins that the more restrictions the more crime. One need look no further than the Democrat controlled areas of this country with strict gun laws and exscalating murder and violent crime rates.
        Further, by the same token that certain elements want to restrict the rights of citizens to legally aquire a firearm, they balk at any similar requirements to vote. Imagine if you were that propective voters required a government ID and proof of citizenship to vote. This is what the Justice Department fights against. Personally I believe that background checks and mental health evaluations of voters would be a good thing – because Obama would never have been elected!

      6. Thank you for your superb arguments IN FAVOR of national registration and background checks (which are the requirement making registrations effective and the combination of which might not eliminate all illicit gun purchases but WOULD make them more difficult, expensive, risky and thus reduce their number). That way weapons purchased elsewhere without ANY qualifications or record cannot be so easily imported (often in bulk) into these free fire zones with “exscalating” crime rates you seem so happy to reference incorrectly declaring that only happens in traditionally democratic-governed ghettoes.

        Do ya suppose there MIGHT be other reasons for that increase in crime than the prohibition of guns there, huh, do ya? Hyperfecundity, population densities, economic factors, broken homes?
        Got any idea how stupid your selective application of cause and effect sounds?

        Correlation does not guarantee causation.

      7. Goom Bah:
        You do not speak truth.
        You say you enlisted to fight in Viet Nam, volunteered, was trained and qualified to fight in Viet Nam, but “never got sent there as events wound down in mid/late 70s.”
        That is false.
        The fall of Saigon happened on April 30, 1975, and events had “wound down” long before then, with front-line combat troops being evacked as rapidly as possible well prior to that date.
        The “winding down” you speak of happened much earlier and was completed on April 30, 1975 when the last helicopters left the American Embassy with the desperate ones clinging to the skids.
        All that remained by that time was military guarding the Embassy.
        I (Army of the United States 1971-1973, MOS 91A) watched these events with deep interest and emotion, as did my brother who was 11B in I (pronounced “eye”) Corps 1971-1972.
        Your statements on military matters do not withstand scrutiny.
        Your remarks on the NRA and other subjects are equally uninformed.

      8. Ad hominem again? OK Hillbully, you miserable lying sack.

        No more Mr Nice Guy.

        F you, ya insurrectionist fundamentalist christian racist gun nuts. Those are safe adjectives based on the desperate tenacity with which you, gfr, Truhawk, venom526, et al try to destroy my (vietnam-era active duty veteran and gun owner) simple sincere advocacy of common sense and feasible gun controls (including exposing and overcoming y’all’s and the NRA’s simply

        BIZARRE, INSANE, INDEFENSIBLE opposition to using the no-fly list to prevent terrorist
        suspects from buying semi-automatic weapons) while you’re seeking to discredit
        my exposure of NRA lies and despicable goals/methods (by your lying about
        “taking our guns”, blocking all credible research on gun
        risks/benefits, and spending fifty million member dollars in bribes to
        politicians hoping to preserve gun industry blood-soaked profits).

        Perhaps most galling to you is my admiration and praise for
        Our Courageous President’s refusal to dishonor innocent victims (of the gun
        violence YOU and the NRA continue to facilitate) by giving up on devising and
        implementing strengthened and more effective gun controls despite intransigent
        mindless republican opposition.

        You also clearly loathe my honoring active duty combat casualty liberals, women, and homosexuals.

        Your math also sux. I enlisted in August 1970 well BEFORE the 73 withdrawals and 75 evacuation and I am doubting your knowledge of how dream sheets work. I placed what I was volunteering for in priority order and when I filled it out it could be YEARS before any action was taken on it amid major geopolitical shifts. I listed Vietnam first on EVERY one I submitted through 75 with Thailand second and Korea third.

        You now owe me personally an apology and retraction in addition to an apology to those
        other three groups. Let’s see it. Starting to think YOU are just one more Stolen Valor internet troll but will withhold judgment in the event you belatedly display some hint of honor

      9. Hillbully aka Proven Liar,

        Still waiting for your apology to active duty combat casualty liberals, women, and homosexuals and your deletion/retraction of your libels against my honorable wartime service.

    2. Good Post. I own 24 Firearms, 14 years active duty Navy and five years Navy Reserve/Texas Army National Guard veteran, and I currently work at a Firearms retailer. I belonged to the NRA for 22 years, but let my membership lapse after the NRA rhetoric in 2012. You can be a full supporter of 2nd amendment rights and not belong to the NRA. Just could no longer support an organization that has basically become so bombastic and fearful that they won’t listen to common sense measures to ensure we keep firearms out of the hands of those who are violent, domestic abusers, or judged mentally incompetent. I think it is my duty as a responsible American gun owner to help keep firearms out of the hands of those who should not have them and not fall prey to the propaganda that the NRA pushes that every suggestion for improved background checks is a threat on my 2nd amendment rights.

      1. Idiot, we have sufficient background checks called an FFL. Legal gun owners are complying! Criminals get guns off the street! Your misguided attempt to slander the NRA makes your stupidity shine!

      2. I refuse to get into a discussion with an imbecile so this is my last post on the matter.
        An FFL is a Federal Firearms License. Gives ATF authorized firearms dealers the License to legally sell firearms. An FFL is not a background check. I deal with NICS/ATF background checks every day on my job as an FFL FIREARMS RETAILER! I have sorry and sad news for you, not every LEGAL gun owner is honest, and many of them also try to cut corners on background check forms and also try to attempt straw purchases for their friends and relatives. Most domestic shootings in the United States are not done by “CRIMINALs” but by mentally unstable gun owners against their families. Bombastic and insulting attacks in online forums only go to prove the shallowness of ones anachronistic arguments and lack of ability to foster sane and productive discussions about the 2nd Amendment. I also don’t see where I slandered the NRA? I simply said I no longer support them financially. My inalienable right under the 1st Amendment is to support the 2nd amendment by way of presenting my thoughts and arguments and giving my hard earned dollars to organizations that promote common sense gun ownership.. I am as strong a 2nd Amendment believer and supporter as you. I just am no longer delusional about the NRA. The only thing to fear is fear itself.

      3. MiniMe… more unsubstantiated ad hominem crappyola.
        Sounds like YOU are that “delusional” angry, heavily armed guy we’re ALL worried about.

      4. I have the same challenge with fundamentalist gun nuts but I manage with only occasional redundancy and a helluva lot more factual content and accuracy than “you are a liar and a nobama suckup”. That is your best phrase ever …worthy of programming to repeat automatically? Low standards. Low but accurate self-esteem.

    3. The NRA is a vital organization in America! You need to take your head out of your ass every now and then to get a clue!

      1. Vital to the gun industry just as the American Tobacco Institute is vital to cigarette manufacturers. The ATI once fought the most limited, reasonable risk disclosures and sale restrictions to reduce death… just as the NRA does now.
        As for the rest of your rant,
        you and the panicked hordes of fact free, in denial, gun nuts (as opposed to rational, objective gun owners) displayed here just cannot post without lies, threats, and insults… apparently hoping they compensate for ignorance and illogic.
        Y’all are Exhibit One that both the gun culture and political climate have been poisoned by extremists incapable of productive colloquy.

    4. Goom Bah: Like your train of thought. This is no place to discuss it because of the risk of heart attacks spreading throughout the gun hobby world. Just as there are limits on our 1st amendment rights, there will be limits on our second amendment rights. It will take some time for the Supreme Court to hear appropriate challenges, but it will happen.

    5. Must be tough being an intellectual and a bad ass all at once. I bet you are extremely pleased to show off your acumen to people you will never see in real life. I mean, screw reality, right?

      1. WTF are you babbling about? Are you challenging me to a fistfight or High Noon or what?

        You want me to apologize for using the right word for the job and my decent (but imperfect) spelling?

        Jesus, get a grip.

        The “reality” is the NRA has spent millions to bribe amoral corrupt politicians [including democrat Bernie Sanders] to block gun-related consumer safety research and defeat potentially lifesaving proposals to expand registration and qualification requirements, NONE of which would violate the Second Amendment but ALL of which would save at least SOME lives.

        Therefore, the NRA and its rabid defenders such as yourself have the blood of innocents on your hands. You’re clearly OK with that and remain just one more ad hominem hurling, fact-free gun nut (as opposed to the many responsible gun owners contributing here including, I’d note, myself).

      2. Tell me how registration will save lives! Tell me how registrations prevents crimes! The purpose of registration is to allow the governement to know who has what. And the next question is why do they need to know?

      3. Dear Sir or Madam,

        Please see my reply to your comment “Cars and Planes” above which responds to your concern repeated here.

        Thank you.

        GB

      1. So Brent,
        You seem to think everything’s fine as is. Innocents slaughtered by AK-47s.
        Like so many of the rabid sociopathic fundamentalist gun nuts who defend everything the NRA does (as opposed to responsible, rational gun owners who are troubled by it and some actually resign membership), you are not very bright and a selective reader… seeing only what you want to see.
        I never said Our President didn’t advocate for more effective registration and background check legislation which industry-bribed republicans and Bernie S. defeated.
        I said he did not try to ban and collect your guns which YOU said in 2007-8 he was going to do.

        Your Republican-controlled Congress was silent after Sandy Hook, Congress was silent after Aurora, Congress was silent after South Carolina and Colorado Springs. Congress has been derelict in its duty. It’s shameful and it’s cowardice.

        Several Republican NRA-stooges were quickly instructed this afternoon by Wayne LaPierre and/or NRA staff to say “too little was known to offer comment” and are saying it.
        “We have to wait, no reason to jump to any conclusions yet, we need to figure out what’s going on,” said Rep. Devin Nunes (R-Tulare). “Let’s just wait and let law enforcement figure it out.”
        Other Republican patsies still questioned the need for improved gun controls.
        And you are so brainwashed by the NRA, so sociopathic that even the slaughter in San Bernadino has no effect on you. Creates no regret worth mentioning. You just keep spouting the party line and hating a President YOU and the NRA and its openly racist “Eight years of a [negro] President is enough!” mouthpiece have been lying about since he announced he’d run.

      1. You are VERY welcome. It is disheartening to see so many fellow citizen gun owners willfully setting aside morality and logic in their mindless macho rush to join the demagogues and ideologues in blocking credible risk/benefit studies for domestic gun ownership and even joining LaPierre and Ryan in the absurd and self-destructive position that because the no fly list is “not perfect” and may cause a few members extra paperwork to resolve discrepancies (it is designed to generate a miniscule number of false positives but no false negatives) , it should NEVER be used to identify suspected terrorists and keep them from legally buying hundreds of guns and tens of thousands of bullets.

        Forever incapable of critical thinking due to their unquestioning obedience training during religious brainwashing, they now prefer the simple sloganeering of gun industry posters showing a family and a fireplace and “protect what matters most” (without considering the reality that introducing lethal weapons into the home endangers more than protects them) or an assault rifle silhouette with the slogan “try and take it” (without considering it is too often a criminal butcher holding one and taunting heroic outgunned patrolmen). The religion industry and the gun industry depend on simpletons for their business, and business is good. I am merely that discouraging word they both prefer never be heard… right or wrong.

      1. You WISH, pathetic troll !! Life is so simple for the simple-minded. Now also waiting for YOUR apology to active duty combat casualty liberals, women, and homosexuals and your deletion/retraction of your libels against MY honorable and decorated (not from surplus store or online) wartime service. But where you are bereft of honour, will be a long wait, right? Surprise both of us and just do the right thing for the first time ever and admit you know not whereof you speak and are just filled with hate.

  2. Goom Bah, you are living up to your name. I am a 30 year Navy Vet, I would like one, carried one, qualified on them monthly, for a long time, why don’t you fly to Washington and Kiss the Kings Ass.

    1. Gee, what a shock. “gfr” upvoted you. Your shared anger, irrationality and obsession with typically homosexual courting behaviors is very clear in print…. and very revealing. Why don’t you two get a room?
      I qualified regularly with multiple weapons, too. BFD.
      Try sticking to relevant facts and the truth.

      1. Another insult-hurling, fact-deprived, illiterate non sequiturian gun nut heard from …as opposed to the many responsible rational gun owners who courageously (inviting pinhead abuse like yours) support my factual, reasonable positions.
        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
        “warented” = wanted ?

      2. …or sense of humor.

        Ironic that a semi-literate gun nut such as yourself

        [who likely regurgitates NRA and GOA lies denying the pivotal role easy access to guns in the home plays in the national epidemic of succesful first suicide attempts]

        now wants me to remove the trigger lock from mine and kill myself. Wouldn’t YOU doing that serve the “world” better by increasing the average IQ and likelihood of productive compromise on critical issues?

      3. SUCH hypocrisy !
        I am not “assuming” all you have done is throw out fact free insults.
        I am not assuming easy access to guns in the home contributes to soaring suicide rates, continuing domestic violence, and accidental child deaths.

        I am not assuming your recent posts were desperate, irrelevant, malapropped aphorisms.

      4. You blatantly NRA-adoring Liar!
        “we all know what assuming is.” was not an aphorism ?
        “thin the herd, Lib” (ie go kill yourself) was not meant as an insult?
        You… like most fundamentalist gun nuts attacking me here… are in total illiterate stalking denial mode.
        Got something factual on topic to contribute or just naysaying?
        GFY

    1. I’ve heard once the program gets underway full throttle, $400 is a more likely cost.
      CMP was/is selling their service grade .30-06 M1 Garand for $525.

      Feel free to call me brain dead, libta rd, and a stup id coc ksuck er now for replying factually.
      That seems to be the protocol around here.

      1. Inappropriate laughter is a sign of mental illness.

        I notice that [as you previously did above], you seek only to insult the bearer of facts that challenge your fantasies while producing none of your own for scrutiny.

        That is what passes for “persuasive rhetoric” among the fundamentalist gun nut crowd, eh?

        Clearly many rational, responsible gun owners posting here find my points valid.

        I don’t expect you to agree with me… just be civil and seek colloquy.

        But you simply can’t.

  3. Looks like “Miracles do still Happen” … or did “Hell Freeze Over”? … Naaaa … Congress approved Obama’s “discretionary spending” … Money Obama uses to “Aid and Abet” his Muslim Friends (Muslim Terrorists like ISIS).

  4. If you’re so proud of your facts sir, I urge you to check the CMP website for the actual price of a service grade Garand. They haven’t been that cheap for quite some time. My problem, is that such an obvious error calls in to question the rest of your facts. As a combat veteran and commercial instrument fixed and rotary wing pilot myself, I was quite interested in your position, but less so after such an egregious error.

    1. I’m not “proud”, just sharing the information I had and I welcome correction… without your invective and arrogance.
      That’s what I paid for mine.
      BFD.
      If because I included a tentative “/is” you’re trying to justify insulting me, ignoring the rabid nonsensical posts of your frothing pals, and ignoring all available evidence including Colorado Springs that people are able to buy guns who shouldn’t be trusted with one, you are deep into a mental autorotation. Good luck with the touchdown.

      1. I think you’re missing my point. There were no insults in my reply. Be careful not to lump me in with everyone that doesn’t share your opinion. The fact that you have dismissed me because you find what I said “rabid” and “nonsensical” means you just like arguing. You gave “facts” and I asked you to check them because your facts were wrong, and you’re mad at me? Sounds a lot like the people you’re saying are idiots…

      2. My “facts” [plural] were wrong? So far I see only your claim that the price went up on the M1 from CMP after i got mine. I’m willing to accept that. It is logical that the price would go up as the supply diminished on desirable government surplus sales items being titrated out to the public.
        I see it happening with Humvees as we post. Your point actually buttresses mine that at kleast initially these pistols SHOULD have an attractive price point, just as the M1 did… not this $1100 figure I was rresponding to.

        But drop the sanctimonious “no insults” crap. You introduced your comment with arrogance and sarcasm and the claim I am guilty of the venal sin “pride”.

        Further, I don’t see you challenging the far more incendiary and significant treasonous claims that Our President is a King, a Traitor, and is funding Muslim Terrorists, You’re OK with those being presented as facts?

      3. I don’t have time to comment on all the ways I don’t like our president. Pretty sure not liking him is not treasonous though.
        As far as arguing with people saying those things goes, I believe it to be a giant waste of time. Most people making those claims only read news that supports their beliefs and nothing else. That being said, yes, I think he is a lousy president. I’m sorry that you’re not able to see that, but that’s okay, you can love him as much as you want. That’s the beautiful thing about this country, we can all have our own opinions. I’m out sir, the last word is yours for the taking.

      4. I dunno… maybe treasonous was the wrong word but their saying Our President is a traitor and funds terrorism seemed treasonous at first blush. He HAS done a lousy job of dealing with ISIS. Hell, for that matter, maybe our leading Generals funded terrorism by leaving so much equipment where ISIS could capture it and use it against us. When ISIS captured three divisions worth of equipment from Mosul and hundreds of vehicles and tanks in Ramadi, B52s could have ensured the warranties expired suddenly.

        I think Our President has done a decent job easing us back from the brink of financial collapse with the economy gradually recovering from the great conservative guns and butter/Wall Street Hedge Fund/Mortgage Shuffle debacle. Were their others of either Party who could have done as well or better? Probably… but can’t argue with success.

        I think Our President will go down in history as a champion of the Common Man for bringing affordable health care to millions (especially those with chronic conditions) who for fifty years have been ignored and thus condemned by republicans and their insuror cronies.

        I think Our President has done a lousy job with race relations where he had an unparalleled opportunity to unassailably eliminate the discriminatory affirmative action programs [which continue to destroy the American meritocracy and endanger public safety] while rigorously enforcing Equal Opportunity. He has also failed to adequately deplore inner city hyperfecundity and violence.

        I think Our President has done a lousy job of closing Gitmo by deporting most and housing some stateside regardless of NIMBY protests.

        The “lousy” list could go on… but considering he has done NOTHING to confiscate weapons as hysterically predicted, the right wing gun lobby owes him an apology.

    1. Dear Bobbi,

      Not an example of any of that in sight that you can cite.

      Just more of your old-fashioned, fact free, in denial, gun nut spittle.

    1. You crack me up man! Yay yadda yadda NRA!! Yadda yadda GUNS! Yadda yadda STUPID DEMOCRATS!! Like a Donald Trump commercial. You’re entitled to your opinions though too. I just really wish that people could figure out how much screaming NRA rhetoric hurts the gun community. I dearly miss the days of Charleton Heston. Back before our only argument was screaming about how stupid the other guy is. That’s a good method in the third grade, but now it’s just sad.

    1. One data point and viola! – You have proven…..what again? Ah, what you believed from the beginning. It is called “confirmation of bias” – and everyone is susceptible to it.

      1. “Viola”? I prefer the deeper, richer tones of the cello. It is tuned in the same intervals as the viola, but an octave lower. But, hey, if you’re a Michael Jackson fan, go for it.

  5. And when will they sell the Thompson’s they have left? (LOL) BAR’s? M2 carbines? All highly regulated, all properly registered with extensive checks. So…..why not?

  6. Our President gets thousands of letters each day.
    There will always be some you will like since they agree with your misconceptions and prejudices, no matter how many transparent lies they contain.
    Please note that Snopes merely authenticated the source of that letter. It nowise validated its hyperbolic content: all of which was written in anger and much of which was inaccurate.
    Age is no guarantee of wisdom but IS often associated with dementia.
    Have a nice day.

    1. I suggest you reread Mr Estes letter.
      Don’t understand why you wrote a letter to our president. Did you expect an answer or just to post about it here to boost your ego? Let us all know when you get a reply. As for me, I am done here.
      You have to “get a life” as you seem lonely and reaching out for attention any way you can. Your attitude seems very self-destructive.

      1. Methinks there are a LOT of things you don’t understand… including what that Snopes letter said and what its being published there and labeled TRUE referred to.

        You also don’t understand democracy. One doesn’t contact elected representatives seeking replies (although the White House often provides them and I have some on stationery with a seal) or personal reward (well, unless you are in New York City, Long Island, or Chicago).

        One seeks to support or suggest a policy. THAT is exactly what a sentient reader (as opposed to your fundamentalist gun nut control freak orientation) would recognize.

        I want to reduce gun violence through making it more difficult for criminal and emotionally unstable individuals to acquire guns. That SHOULD be the orientation of the NRA instead of their determination to sell more guns to anyone with the money and block all research or restrictions on the trade.

        My goal and efforts are not in any way “self-destructive” nor am I “lonely”. When I see preventable, NRA-enabled religion/politics-provoked massacres like Colorado Springs and (motivation as yet unclear) bloodbaths like San Bernadino I set aside my personal recreation to investigate and comment.

        Your opposing and mocking my attempts and telling me what i should and should not be doing is not “self-destructive” since you likely hold an arsenal. It IS, however, sociopathic.

  7. It would be nice to have a valued piece of a bygone era. I can still remember shaking my old 1911 and listening to it rattle because of the loose parts from wear. These pistols won’t be good for much more than placing in a show case without a considerable rebuild. In the military, your sidearm becomes a part of you that when out of your possession, sends a terrifying message, like you left your child at the football game by accident.

  8. Why would a president who is balls to the wall trying to take our gons, then just give tens of thousands of 1911s to the publik, be thinking? Ok,….thanks…..we’ll tak’em. ……..Does anyone else see anything strange going on here?……….800# Gorilla in the room.

    1. He can have my gon.

      You wouldn’t be a…err…. reality-challenged (where is ANY credible direct evidence of this “balls to the wall” gun confiscation intent or success after two terms?) conspiracy theorist by any chance?

      Just gesture thumb up or thumb down… I’m in that blacked out stealth S-97 hovering outside your window.
      Nice Raquel Welch poster by the way.

      1. When I run outa booolits mon, I use lika ax!…..It almost makes me high, just thinking about the constant sellout of gunshop inventory lately. Rekomember….No government, and/or or religion, has ever taken an armed populace…….EVER!………………………………………..800# gorilla…

  9. OZero is trying to deplete the inventory to get more dollars into a seemingly endless money pit to support all his programs. I have heard that these relics are to go on the sale floor for Anniston for just under $2K which is insane. Yep, FOR SALE: worn out model 1911 pistols….come one, come all..(rust included).

    1. You heard wrong… just as you heard our President would never sign a bill allowing this sale. He just wanted to ensure there would be no internet and/or untraceable sales.

  10. SAN BERNADINO:“Kevin said he had been shot three times and that he was in pain but he was all right,” his wife of three weeks Dyana Ortiz, 23, said. “ Then he said ‘I love you’ and I said ‘I love you’ and then the phone went dead”

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    God forbid any of us should have to be inconvenienced by filling out an extra form or by waiting longer for a more thorough background check or even by being required to pass a cursory anger management evaluation before picking up our 1911.

    And of course, I almost forgot, today’s massacre is somehow Our President’s fault. You know… the one who is confiscating all our guns just as we warned in 2008.

    And the NRA was defending the Constitution by ensuring that individuals on the terrorist Do Not Fly list would still be able to buy as many guns as they want because “the list is imprecise” and some NRA member might be temporarily inconvenienced if incorrectly listed. In medicine that would be called a false positive. In medicine we accept tests that produce a few false positives (requiring retest or other evaluation methods to exclude) so long as there are no false negatives… because those could be fatal. Why won’t the NRA and its fanatic supporters on here do likewise to save lives?

    Was today’s slaughter a terrorist from that list, a disgruntled employee or client (my hunch), a domestic violence incident, or drug-related? Doesn’t matter.

    We can’t stop all gun violence whether on this scale in public venues or one on one in kitchens.
    But we could reduce their frequency.

    I don’t mind waiting a few extra days or months for a more comprehensive background check, one considering evidence of additional red flag behavioral issues, or even undergoing an anger management evaluation… all before picking up my 1911… if such additional safeguards will save one housewife or developmentally disabled client. Or 14 of them.

    Why do so many of you?

  11. there’s scarcely room once you get on a roll.
    SO… you didn’t tell me to kill myself
    you didn’t substitute aphorisms and expletives for facts
    you aren’t a facile liar…and now a whiner, too?

      1. Hey, shock all of us with a relevant fact instead of ignoring my concrete references to what you said… or rush back and edit your posts to make yourself seem credible, gnat. You’re a total waste of space. Choke on facts I just posted below exposing more NRA and GOA lies about Our President…. this time their facile liar claims that the UN Arms Trade Treaty would nullify the Second Amendment.
        ~~~~~~~
        venom526 Goom Bah • 2 days ago
        Goom bah please thin the herd
        ~~~~~~~~~
        venom526 Goom Bah • 2 days ago
        ….we all know what assuming is
        ~~~~~~~~~~
        venom526 Goom Bah • 17 hours ago
        …….go fu ck yourself, stop putting words in my mouth

      2. please say something of interest you are quite boring, all you do is assume and put words in my mouth.

  12. Not enough tragedy yet for right wingers to accept expanding background checks? OK.

    BUT I defy ANY of you to defend today’s vote (before the blood had dried in San Bernadino) to continue allowing individuals already placed on the no fly list as known or suspected terrorists (or even — as Farook was about to be — listed for having inordinate contact with terrorists) to buy as many guns and as much ammo in the USA as their credit cards could stand and they had room to stockpile.

    Admittedly, because of the clear and present danger of letting domestic terrorists arm themselves and their sleeper cells, the no fly list is imperfect for sometimes returning a few false positives (applicants mistakenly identified as suspicious and forced to wait longer to buy the gun while providing more proof of administrative mistaken identity error) so as to not allow ANY false negatives (clearing applicants to purchase guns&ammo when they were, in fact, a terror threat).

    Yet the NRA and the republican party blocked its passage.

    Beyond despicable and inexcusable.
    Innocents WILL continue to die as a result just so gun buying NRA members are not inconvenienced.

    THURSDAY NIGHT
    3 DEC 15

    Today Wayne LaPierre… NRA’s bloodthirsty, justice loathing Darth Vader… let his money grubbing republican legislator minions know that if a single one of them flinched in the face of even these simplest, most reasonable democratic gun control proposals, he would make them disappear along with their foreign bank accounts. Do as he ordered by voting no on both and all would be well for generations, he assured them. “Your children will inherit your offices.”

    “But Wayne” said one, “I’m OK voting against changes of waiting period or depth for the background checks, but can I at least vote to keep suspected terrorists on the no fly list from buying guns in the USA? I have a lot of independents in my district and not a single one will vote for me if I don’t at least accept that.”

    “Perhaps you think you’re being treated unfairly?” LaPierre asked him… but before the pol could answer an aide showed him a text saying a bill had just been drafted to redistrict him and include a majority of minority voters.

    “No sir” the legislator hastily answered. “I will do as you say. No on both. Just don’t redistrict me.”

    “You have learned well, my apprentice.”

  13. San Bernadino was carried out by Obama’s Muslim people, so was Ft Hood and the Navy yard killing, the Boston Bombers, you know the same people he wants to import a couple hundred thousand more of, just to insure our safety!
    When we start getting attacked with more pressure cookers, suicide bombers and IED’s I suppose that will also be the fault of the NRA!
    The liberal mind set is the most dangerous thing America has ever faced, it is driving the whole country into poverty and we are sinking in the national debt and still Obama will not close the border!

    1. You can let your “imagination” lead you, like the efked up American women do and have been doing since Adam and Eve.. and just imagine a nice gun in your had, ALL your own. Then, let your imagination drift off to what you see in a toilet bowl after a healthy dunk. There, you will find your gun. Now. if you look closely the gun will have a name engraved on it. The name will be a FEMALE name.. and this is who is behind this. lol Simple as this.

  14. Ban GoomBa and his IP. He is obviously a liberal troll, using all liberal attack methods.
    First Amendment? This is a publicly viewed private forum. Goombah violates our rights.

  15. THIS is easy and simple to solve.. Just let some nut case be made aware of the location of these slime bucket thieves, and let the nut case take the slimes out. a nice one right between the eyes.. THE END of the story. Easy.

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